Discussion:
micro-v belts, smaller
(too old to reply)
Gene Heskett
2015-04-30 18:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Greetings all;

I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.

Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a 3/8"
wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying to do.

What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox on
the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is selling
for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I took off the
lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors pulley will need an
8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock, while the spindle pulley
will need a 30mm hub, possibly taperlock if I can find room for it. The
two pulleys will be otherwise alike, with a 2/1 ratio when the belt is
in the reduction grooves, and a 1/2 when its in the higher speed
grooves, gfiving a variable speed range of up to 2500 in low range, and
up to 10k in high range from a 5k motor. That ought to speed up making
pcb's a bit.

Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with their
pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the popular sizes
for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3 rib 3/8" width,
shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple inches farther off
to the side than I'd like.

Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gene Heskett
2015-04-30 18:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a 3/8"
wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying to do.
What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox on
the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is
selling for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I
took off the lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors pulley
will need an 8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock, while the
spindle pulley will need a 30mm hub,
Actually, I came across a spare set of the nylon gears for the OEM 2
speed, and the spindle diameter where the gears sit, and where my
pulleys will set, is 20.00mm in diameter, which will leave lots more
room for a taperlock hub. I've turned one 1/2" thick square to 7076T4
(or something like it, turns beautifully) and the larger of the 2
pulleys will have 70mm for top of rib diameter. This also gives room
enough to put one of my encoder disks on it, which should enable me to
do rigid threading on the mill too.

$64 question. I have a suspicion I had better make the taperlock insert
out of steel as opposed to the same alloy of alu. Do you folks concur?

My thoughts are: that dependent on the assembly lube, the alu against alu
will gall and seize a lot faster that a steel insert would. I haven't
yet cut the tapered bore for it.
Post by Gene Heskett
possibly taperlock if I can find
room for it. The two pulleys will be otherwise alike, with a 2/1
ratio when the belt is in the reduction grooves, and a 1/2 when its in
the higher speed grooves, gfiving a variable speed range of up to 2500
in low range, and up to 10k in high range from a 5k motor. That ought
to speed up making pcb's a bit.
Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with
their pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the
popular sizes for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3 rib
3/8" width, shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple
inches farther off to the side than I'd like.
Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?
Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Dave Cole
2015-04-30 19:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Micro V belts are apparently targeted at OEMs like car manufacturers who
can make their own pulleys and order thousands of custom spec belts.

A friend of mine tried to buy a setup for a custom machine and nothing
was off the shelf and the selection of belt lengths was very limited.
He could get a belt length that would work but the pulleys were a custom
order - expensive and 6 week delivery.

I'd go with V belts, HTD or Timing belts and forget about Micro V belts
unless you happen onto the proper parts.

Dave
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a 3/8"
wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying to do.
What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox on
the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is
selling for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I
took off the lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors pulley
will need an 8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock, while the
spindle pulley will need a 30mm hub,
Actually, I came across a spare set of the nylon gears for the OEM 2
speed, and the spindle diameter where the gears sit, and where my
pulleys will set, is 20.00mm in diameter, which will leave lots more
room for a taperlock hub. I've turned one 1/2" thick square to 7076T4
(or something like it, turns beautifully) and the larger of the 2
pulleys will have 70mm for top of rib diameter. This also gives room
enough to put one of my encoder disks on it, which should enable me to
do rigid threading on the mill too.
$64 question. I have a suspicion I had better make the taperlock insert
out of steel as opposed to the same alloy of alu. Do you folks concur?
My thoughts are: that dependent on the assembly lube, the alu against alu
will gall and seize a lot faster that a steel insert would. I haven't
yet cut the tapered bore for it.
Post by Gene Heskett
possibly taperlock if I can find
room for it. The two pulleys will be otherwise alike, with a 2/1
ratio when the belt is in the reduction grooves, and a 1/2 when its in
the higher speed grooves, gfiving a variable speed range of up to 2500
in low range, and up to 10k in high range from a 5k motor. That ought
to speed up making pcb's a bit.
Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with
their pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the
popular sizes for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3 rib
3/8" width, shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple
inches farther off to the side than I'd like.
Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?
Thanks all.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-30 23:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Cole
Micro V belts are apparently targeted at OEMs like car manufacturers
who can make their own pulleys and order thousands of custom spec
belts.
A friend of mine tried to buy a setup for a custom machine and nothing
was off the shelf and the selection of belt lengths was very limited.
He could get a belt length that would work but the pulleys were a
custom order - expensive and 6 week delivery.
I'd go with V belts, HTD or Timing belts and forget about Micro V
belts unless you happen onto the proper parts.
Dave
Ah, Dave? Did you miss the memo? We are used to making our own special
parts. Making the pulley's doesn't seem like a particularly hard thing
to do, so that is what I am about.

But I have a PITA in the machine that runs my lathe, its recently turned
into a crashomatic, with uptimes of about an hour!

And since it is an nfs mount, when it crashes, it locks up the rest of
the machines that are mounting it. Thats the PITA problem. And IMO a
damned bug in nsf4.

I think I am going to have to find another PSU for it, there is no other
rhyme or reason for it to go away in the middle of a job, like it has
done 3x today. I padded up to the shop & tapped the reset button just
now so I'll be good for maybe an hour. But I also just commented that
line out of fstab on this machine until such time as I get that one
fixed.
Post by Dave Cole
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a
3/8" wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am
trying to do.
What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set
of pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole
gearbox on the spindle and replace it with something resembling the
LMS is selling for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400
watter I took off the lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the
motors pulley will need an 8mm hub, probably another shop made
taperlock, while the spindle pulley will need a 30mm hub,
Actually, I came across a spare set of the nylon gears for the OEM 2
speed, and the spindle diameter where the gears sit, and where my
pulleys will set, is 20.00mm in diameter, which will leave lots more
room for a taperlock hub. I've turned one 1/2" thick square to
7076T4 (or something like it, turns beautifully) and the larger of
the 2 pulleys will have 70mm for top of rib diameter. This also
gives room enough to put one of my encoder disks on it, which should
enable me to do rigid threading on the mill too.
$64 question. I have a suspicion I had better make the taperlock
insert out of steel as opposed to the same alloy of alu. Do you
folks concur?
My thoughts are: that dependent on the assembly lube, the alu
against alu will gall and seize a lot faster that a steel insert
would. I haven't yet cut the tapered bore for it.
Post by Gene Heskett
possibly taperlock if I can find
room for it. The two pulleys will be otherwise alike, with a 2/1
ratio when the belt is in the reduction grooves, and a 1/2 when its
in the higher speed grooves, gfiving a variable speed range of up
to 2500 in low range, and up to 10k in high range from a 5k motor.
That ought to speed up making pcb's a bit.
Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with
their pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the
popular sizes for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3
rib 3/8" width, shorter that 21". That would put the motor a
couple inches farther off to the side than I'd like.
Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?
Thanks all.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gregg Eshelman
2015-05-01 04:07:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
I think I am going to have to find another PSU for it, there is no other
rhyme or reason for it to go away in the middle of a job, like it has
done 3x today. I padded up to the shop & tapped the reset button just
now so I'll be good for maybe an hour. But I also just commented that
line out of fstab on this machine until such time as I get that one
fixed.
Check all over the motherboard for capacitors with bulged tops and/or
signs of leaking. Also open up the power supply and look for same.

All the electrolytic can capacitors should be completely flat on top.
The slightest bulge indicates its bad and will be doing out of
specification nastiness to voltage levels and data signals.

I've seen several power supplies that would do a voltage drop or
increase after being on for a while. A drop can get you lockups, random
reboots and even (oh such fun) data corruption. Too much and CPUs and
hard drives can get fried.

There's a 5 volt line not used on newer ATX power supplies so if you
have a tester and it says that line is bad, look to see if the wire is
not in the connector.

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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 04:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregg Eshelman
Post by Gene Heskett
I think I am going to have to find another PSU for it, there is no
other rhyme or reason for it to go away in the middle of a job, like
it has done 3x today. I padded up to the shop & tapped the reset
button just now so I'll be good for maybe an hour. But I also just
commented that line out of fstab on this machine until such time as
I get that one fixed.
Check all over the motherboard for capacitors with bulged tops and/or
signs of leaking. Also open up the power supply and look for same.
All the electrolytic can capacitors should be completely flat on top.
The slightest bulge indicates its bad and will be doing out of
specification nastiness to voltage levels and data signals.
Theres an echo in here Gregg. Capacitor ESR is the single most important
characteristic in modern digital junk.

You may have forgotten that I am A C.E.T., so those are the first things
I look for. I just haven't pulled it off the shelf to look yet, thats
short stepladder work. Tomorrow if its not raining.
Post by Gregg Eshelman
I've seen several power supplies that would do a voltage drop or
increase after being on for a while. A drop can get you lockups,
random reboots and even (oh such fun) data corruption. Too much and
CPUs and hard drives can get fried.
Yeah, there are times when I would kill for a 60 yo VTVM, its needle
response is instant. Now we have to drag out a scope to look at such
stuff. It is even better at finding that stuff, but most look at a
scope & go "whazzat thing?", and have no clue even when you tell them
what its doing. I think the majority of us here can use one though.
I've had a scope probe in one hand since 1950ish.
Post by Gregg Eshelman
There's a 5 volt line not used on newer ATX power supplies so if you
have a tester and it says that line is bad, look to see if the wire is
not in the connector.
I think the drive logic, in both drives, (rotating magnetic, and rotating
optical) needs 5 volts in these boxes, so I would expect it to be
present and accounted for. Unless I missed the memo...
Post by Gregg Eshelman
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Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with
50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you
Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing
using APM Insight.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gregg Eshelman
2015-05-01 06:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Gregg Eshelman
There's a 5 volt line not used on newer ATX power supplies so if you
have a tester and it says that line is bad, look to see if the wire is
not in the connector.
I think the drive logic, in both drives, (rotating magnetic, and rotating
optical) needs 5 volts in these boxes, so I would expect it to be
present and accounted for. Unless I missed the memo...
Here's the memo. :)
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/337378-28-white-wire-missing


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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 09:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregg Eshelman
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Gregg Eshelman
There's a 5 volt line not used on newer ATX power supplies so if
you have a tester and it says that line is bad, look to see if the
wire is not in the connector.
I think the drive logic, in both drives, (rotating magnetic, and
rotating optical) needs 5 volts in these boxes, so I would expect it
to be present and accounted for. Unless I missed the memo...
Here's the memo. :)
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/337378-28-white-wire-missing
Ahh, so, the MINUS 5 volt line. Sorta like the passenger pidgeon or dodo
bird. Extinct. :) Does not exist even in this quad core phenom build,
which is pretty ancient itself.

Thanks Gregg.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 09:17:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregg Eshelman
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Gregg Eshelman
There's a 5 volt line not used on newer ATX power supplies so if you
have a tester and it says that line is bad, look to see if the wire is
not in the connector.
I think the drive logic, in both drives, (rotating magnetic, and rotating
optical) needs 5 volts in these boxes, so I would expect it to be
present and accounted for. Unless I missed the memo...
Here's the memo. :)
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/337378-28-white-wire-missing
So, does he take the red pill or does he take the blue pill? ;-)

Mark
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 09:15:24 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:52 AM, Gene Heskett <***@wdtv.com> wrote:
<snippage>
Post by Gene Heskett
Now we have to drag out a scope to look at such
stuff. It is even better at finding that stuff, but most look at a
scope & go "whazzat thing?", and have no clue even when you tell them
what its doing.
Get 'em one a these - Ebay #171772965816

;-)

Mark
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 10:07:48 UTC
Permalink
wrote: <snippage>
Post by Gene Heskett
Now we have to drag out a scope to look at such
stuff. It is even better at finding that stuff, but most look at a
scope & go "whazzat thing?", and have no clue even when you tell
them what its doing.
Get 'em one a these - Ebay #171772965816
;-)
Mark
That one is out of calibtration by now, and uncalibratable because the
input attenuator parts are out of stock. I will never touch a 20 yo Tek
again after my experience trying to get them to warranty the tube that
was clearly defective in a 22xx, 100mhz dual trace when it was new in
1984. I finally bought a crt and put it in myself. Long since replaced
with a good Hitachi. 30 years later its still in pretty close
calibration.

Getting scope poor around here though, I bought a DS0-1 a couple years
back, already have a Hitachi V1065, 100 mhz dual trace analog and just
last fall bought a dual trace 100mhz digital. For 1 shot storage, its
amazing.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 10:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
wrote: <snippage>
Post by Gene Heskett
Now we have to drag out a scope to look at such
stuff. It is even better at finding that stuff, but most look at a
scope & go "whazzat thing?", and have no clue even when you tell
them what its doing.
Get 'em one a these - Ebay #171772965816
;-)
Mark
That one is out of calibtration by now, and uncalibratable because the
input attenuator parts are out of stock. I will never touch a 20 yo Tek
again after my experience trying to get them to warranty the tube that
was clearly defective in a 22xx, 100mhz dual trace when it was new in
1984. I finally bought a crt and put it in myself. Long since replaced
with a good Hitachi. 30 years later its still in pretty close
calibration.
Getting scope poor around here though, I bought a DS0-1 a couple years
back, already have a Hitachi V1065, 100 mhz dual trace analog and just
last fall bought a dual trace 100mhz digital. For 1 shot storage, its
amazing.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Never say never. I own a set of them there input attenuators, as well as
almost all the gear required to calibration most Tek analog scopes, up to,
and including the 7104 1 GHz mainframe.

And there are quite a few shops out there that will cal the scopes with
certs if you require them too.
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 15:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by Gene Heskett
wrote: <snippage>
Post by Gene Heskett
Now we have to drag out a scope to look at such
stuff. It is even better at finding that stuff, but most look
at a scope & go "whazzat thing?", and have no clue even when you
tell them what its doing.
Get 'em one a these - Ebay #171772965816
;-)
Mark
That one is out of calibtration by now, and uncalibratable because
the input attenuator parts are out of stock. I will never touch a
20 yo Tek again after my experience trying to get them to warranty
the tube that was clearly defective in a 22xx, 100mhz dual trace
when it was new in 1984. I finally bought a crt and put it in
myself. Long since replaced with a good Hitachi. 30 years later its
still in pretty close calibration.
Getting scope poor around here though, I bought a DS0-1 a couple
years back, already have a Hitachi V1065, 100 mhz dual trace analog
and just last fall bought a dual trace 100mhz digital. For 1 shot
storage, its amazing.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Never say never. I own a set of them there input attenuators, as well
as almost all the gear required to calibration most Tek analog scopes,
up to, and including the 7104 1 GHz mainframe.
How deep are your pockets?

When that 2235 was about 7 years old, I found the input attenuator wasn't
anywhere near the 1,2,5 sequence on 1 channel, off on both but waaaayyy
off on one, as it had been left for days looking at a 285 volt dc level,
with 150 volts of video on it, looking for an intermittent, which when
it finaly showed itself, was a bad .5 uf paper capacitor that was
opening up.

Called tek after having verified the R's on that fawncy ceramic plate
were sick (but not discolored in the least), found that it was past the
federally mandated 5 years since it went out of production for parts
availability, that yes they still had one left, no claims that it was
good, and they wanted $1750 from me for the privilege of testing it when
I installed it. I sent it to the transmitter forever, and spent that
money and another thou on a Hitachi v1085, which 20 some years later
still self tests itself at powerup and remains in calibration yet today.
The pushbuttons aren't getting as much use today so they are a bit
flaky, but then so are the buttons on my 30 yo V1065, whose computer
isn't near as smart as the later version.
Post by Mark Wendt
And there are quite a few shops out there that will cal the scopes
with certs if you require them too.
Which is why I asked if you had really deep pockets. We have been frugal
so I could do it, once. But I would never hear the end of it for paying
3 or 4 grand to calibrate a 99 dollar (+ ship, that thing must weigh 35
lbs) ebay scope. For under a $500 bill you can own a 2ghz digital
sampler that masquerades as a 200Mhz, dual trace scope, with a full
color display 2x the size of the teks, and 10x brighter. And weighs 2
lbs & change.

The beginning of the end for tek was when they went public, then bought,
or was bought, by the Grass Valley Group, both of which made top of the
line test and production video gear IN THEIR DAY. Then they rested on
their 1980 laurals. Today, they are both history, having been surpassed
in the night by people whose names you may never have heard of, but who
WILL give you the state of the art tools you need today, at a reasonable
asking price.

I gotta say it, Mark, that 2015 morning coffee smells pretty darned good
from here. The 1985 version? Gah, its hopelessly burnt sitting on the
back burner that long.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 16:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Never say never. I own a set of them there input attenuators, as well
as almost all the gear required to calibration most Tek analog scopes,
up to, and including the 7104 1 GHz mainframe.
How deep are your pockets?
When that 2235 was about 7 years old, I found the input attenuator wasn't
anywhere near the 1,2,5 sequence on 1 channel, off on both but waaaayyy
off on one, as it had been left for days looking at a 285 volt dc level,
with 150 volts of video on it, looking for an intermittent, which when
it finaly showed itself, was a bad .5 uf paper capacitor that was
opening up.
Called tek after having verified the R's on that fawncy ceramic plate
were sick (but not discolored in the least), found that it was past the
federally mandated 5 years since it went out of production for parts
availability, that yes they still had one left, no claims that it was
good, and they wanted $1750 from me for the privilege of testing it when
I installed it. I sent it to the transmitter forever, and spent that
money and another thou on a Hitachi v1085, which 20 some years later
still self tests itself at powerup and remains in calibration yet today.
The pushbuttons aren't getting as much use today so they are a bit
flaky, but then so are the buttons on my 30 yo V1065, whose computer
isn't near as smart as the later version.
I'm talking about guys like me out there that collect "vintage" Tek stuff
relatively inexpensively from Ebay, hamfests, Craigslist and other sources,
and they are malfunctioning, repair them. And then run them through the
performance checks and calibrate if necessary. My calibrations don't carry
certs, but the scope will end up close enough for gummint work, or for that
matter, just about any shop work you or I would do.

And then there are the amateur metrologists out there who have full-up cal
labs in their shop, called the volt-nuts and time-nuts (I unashamedly admit
to being on both those mailing lists... ;-) ) will cal your measuring
equipment for you.

I've got close to a dozen different Tek scopes from an SC502 TM50x
mainframe plugin up to a 7854 four-bay mainframe which does waveform
calculations and has digital storage.

All are quite repairable should anything break.

There are a few Tek products with almost unobtanium proprietary chips in
them, but I avoid those. None of the scopes I have have those parts.
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
And there are quite a few shops out there that will cal the scopes
with certs if you require them too.
Which is why I asked if you had really deep pockets. We have been frugal
so I could do it, once. But I would never hear the end of it for paying
3 or 4 grand to calibrate a 99 dollar (+ ship, that thing must weigh 35
lbs) ebay scope. For under a $500 bill you can own a 2ghz digital
sampler that masquerades as a 200Mhz, dual trace scope, with a full
color display 2x the size of the teks, and 10x brighter. And weighs 2
lbs & change.
No need for deep pockets, as I mentioned above. They aren't Tek. They're
guys like me that enjoy playing around with the vintage scopes, and have
built labs for repair and calibration.

As I mentioned before, I can repair and calibrate a scope close enough
(without certs) for pretty much any use I, or just about anybody else on
this list would have. We aren't running NIST labs, creating satellites, or
stuff like that, though as I mentioned previously, there are guys out there
that can cal your gear and back it up with NIST certs.
Post by Gene Heskett
The beginning of the end for tek was when they went public, then bought,
or was bought, by the Grass Valley Group, both of which made top of the
line test and production video gear IN THEIR DAY. Then they rested on
their 1980 laurals. Today, they are both history, having been surpassed
in the night by people whose names you may never have heard of, but who
WILL give you the state of the art tools you need today, at a reasonable
asking price.
I gotta say it, Mark, that 2015 morning coffee smells pretty darned good
from here. The 1985 version? Gah, its hopelessly burnt sitting on the
back burner that long.
So, perhaps there's a spot in your shop that requires 20 GHz+ bandwidth
digital scopes, VNA's, spectrum analyzers and such that cost well over $20k
a piece? I gotta see your shop! ;-)

Let's face it. A 500 MHz analog scope is way overkill for pretty much
anything you, I or anyone else on this list will do in their shops.
Post by Gene Heskett
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Cheers,
Mark
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 16:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Not sure if this went through the first time.
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Never say never. I own a set of them there input attenuators, as well
as almost all the gear required to calibration most Tek analog scopes,
up to, and including the 7104 1 GHz mainframe.
How deep are your pockets?
When that 2235 was about 7 years old, I found the input attenuator wasn't
anywhere near the 1,2,5 sequence on 1 channel, off on both but waaaayyy
off on one, as it had been left for days looking at a 285 volt dc level,
with 150 volts of video on it, looking for an intermittent, which when
it finaly showed itself, was a bad .5 uf paper capacitor that was
opening up.
Called tek after having verified the R's on that fawncy ceramic plate
were sick (but not discolored in the least), found that it was past the
federally mandated 5 years since it went out of production for parts
availability, that yes they still had one left, no claims that it was
good, and they wanted $1750 from me for the privilege of testing it when
I installed it. I sent it to the transmitter forever, and spent that
money and another thou on a Hitachi v1085, which 20 some years later
still self tests itself at powerup and remains in calibration yet today.
The pushbuttons aren't getting as much use today so they are a bit
flaky, but then so are the buttons on my 30 yo V1065, whose computer
isn't near as smart as the later version.
I'm talking about guys like me out there that collect "vintage" Tek stuff
relatively inexpensively from Ebay, hamfests, Craigslist and other sources,
and they are malfunctioning, repair them. And then run them through the
performance checks and calibrate if necessary. My calibrations don't carry
certs, but the scope will end up close enough for gummint work, or for that
matter, just about any shop work you or I would do.

And then there are the amateur metrologists out there who have full-up cal
labs in their shop, called the volt-nuts and time-nuts (I unashamedly admit
to being on both those mailing lists... ;-) ) will cal your measuring
equipment for you.

I've got close to a dozen different Tek scopes from an SC502 TM50x
mainframe plugin up to a 7854 four-bay mainframe which does waveform
calculations and has digital storage.

All are quite repairable should anything break.

There are a few Tek products with almost unobtanium proprietary chips in
them, but I avoid those. None of the scopes I have have those parts.
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
And there are quite a few shops out there that will cal the scopes
with certs if you require them too.
Which is why I asked if you had really deep pockets. We have been frugal
so I could do it, once. But I would never hear the end of it for paying
3 or 4 grand to calibrate a 99 dollar (+ ship, that thing must weigh 35
lbs) ebay scope. For under a $500 bill you can own a 2ghz digital
sampler that masquerades as a 200Mhz, dual trace scope, with a full
color display 2x the size of the teks, and 10x brighter. And weighs 2
lbs & change.
No need for deep pockets, as I mentioned above. They aren't Tek. They're
guys like me that enjoy playing around with the vintage scopes, and have
built labs for repair and calibration.

As I mentioned before, I can repair and calibrate a scope close enough
(without certs) for pretty much any use I, or just about anybody else on
this list would have. We aren't running NIST labs, creating satellites, or
stuff like that, though as I mentioned previously, there are guys out there
that can cal your gear and back it up with NIST certs.
Post by Gene Heskett
The beginning of the end for tek was when they went public, then bought,
or was bought, by the Grass Valley Group, both of which made top of the
line test and production video gear IN THEIR DAY. Then they rested on
their 1980 laurals. Today, they are both history, having been surpassed
in the night by people whose names you may never have heard of, but who
WILL give you the state of the art tools you need today, at a reasonable
asking price.
I gotta say it, Mark, that 2015 morning coffee smells pretty darned good
from here. The 1985 version? Gah, its hopelessly burnt sitting on the
back burner that long.
So, perhaps there's a spot in your shop that requires 20 GHz+ bandwidth
digital scopes, VNA's, spectrum analyzers and such that cost well over $20k
a piece? I gotta see your shop! ;-)

Let's face it. A 500 MHz analog scope is way overkill for pretty much
anything you, I or anyone else on this list will do in their shops.
Post by Gene Heskett
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Cheers,
Mark
andy pugh
2015-05-01 16:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wendt
There are a few Tek products with almost unobtanium proprietary chips in
them, but I avoid those.
I think I probably have one, but so far I like it a lot. Partly
because it is small enough to transport by motorcycle.
It's a 336 (picture of one here: Loading Image... )
with on-screen menus and storage and all sorts of other things that
must have cost a fortune when new.
--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 16:11:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Mark Wendt
There are a few Tek products with almost unobtanium proprietary chips in
them, but I avoid those.
I think I probably have one, but so far I like it a lot. Partly
because it is small enough to transport by motorcycle.
It's a 336 (picture of one here: http://www.komu.jp/DSCN0837B111.jpg )
with on-screen menus and storage and all sorts of other things that
must have cost a fortune when new.
--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
Cute little scope. I was actually thinking of the 2400 series which has a
chip called out on the schematics as U800. Heat degradation does most of
those in. The guys on the Tekscopes mailing lists have taken to installing
computer heat sinks on them to increase their longevity. About the only
place you can get the chips is from other parts queens.

Mark
Gregg Eshelman
2015-05-02 01:33:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by andy pugh
I think I probably have one, but so far I like it a lot. Partly
because it is small enough to transport by motorcycle.
It's a 336 (picture of one here: http://www.komu.jp/DSCN0837B111.jpg )
with on-screen menus and storage and all sorts of other things that
must have cost a fortune when new.
Cute little scope. I was actually thinking of the 2400 series which has a
chip called out on the schematics as U800. Heat degradation does most of
those in. The guys on the Tekscopes mailing lists have taken to installing
computer heat sinks on them to increase their longevity. About the only
place you can get the chips is from other parts queens.
For one Hewlett Packard 8007A pulse generator a broken and irreplaceable
pulse shaper chip was reverse engineered and a scratch built circuit
made to replace it.

http://hackaday.com/2014/04/21/rebuilding-a-custom-ic-saves-hp-pulse-generator/


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 16:53:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Never say never. I own a set of them there input attenuators, as
well as almost all the gear required to calibration most Tek
analog scopes, up to, and including the 7104 1 GHz mainframe.
How deep are your pockets?
[...]
Post by Mark Wendt
I'm talking about guys like me out there that collect "vintage" Tek
stuff relatively inexpensively from Ebay, hamfests, Craigslist and
other sources, and they are malfunctioning, repair them. And then run
them through the performance checks and calibrate if necessary. My
calibrations don't carry certs, but the scope will end up close enough
for gummint work, or for that matter, just about any shop work you or
I would do.
Touche'
Post by Mark Wendt
And then there are the amateur metrologists out there who have full-up
cal labs in their shop, called the volt-nuts and time-nuts (I
unashamedly admit to being on both those mailing lists... ;-) ) will
cal your measuring equipment for you.
I've got close to a dozen different Tek scopes from an SC502 TM50x
mainframe plugin up to a 7854 four-bay mainframe which does waveform
calculations and has digital storage.
Power draw?
Post by Mark Wendt
All are quite repairable should anything break.
There are a few Tek products with almost unobtanium proprietary chips
in them, but I avoid those. None of the scopes I have have those
parts.
How does one discern that?
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
And there are quite a few shops out there that will cal the scopes
with certs if you require them too.
Which is why I asked if you had really deep pockets. We have been
frugal so I could do it, once. But I would never hear the end of it
for paying 3 or 4 grand to calibrate a 99 dollar (+ ship, that thing
must weigh 35 lbs) ebay scope. For under a $500 bill you can own a
2ghz digital sampler that masquerades as a 200Mhz, dual trace scope,
with a full color display 2x the size of the teks, and 10x brighter.
And weighs 2 lbs & change.
No need for deep pockets, as I mentioned above. They aren't Tek.
They're guys like me that enjoy playing around with the vintage
scopes, and have built labs for repair and calibration.
As I mentioned before, I can repair and calibrate a scope close enough
(without certs) for pretty much any use I, or just about anybody else
on this list would have. We aren't running NIST labs, creating
satellites, or stuff like that, though as I mentioned previously,
there are guys out there that can cal your gear and back it up with
NIST certs.
Post by Gene Heskett
The beginning of the end for tek was when they went public, then
bought, or was bought, by the Grass Valley Group, both of which made
top of the line test and production video gear IN THEIR DAY. Then
they rested on their 1980 laurals. Today, they are both history,
having been surpassed in the night by people whose names you may
never have heard of, but who WILL give you the state of the art
tools you need today, at a reasonable asking price.
I gotta say it, Mark, that 2015 morning coffee smells pretty darned
good from here. The 1985 version? Gah, its hopelessly burnt
sitting on the back burner that long.
So, perhaps there's a spot in your shop that requires 20 GHz+
bandwidth digital scopes, VNA's, spectrum analyzers and such that cost
well over $20k a piece? I gotta see your shop! ;-)
Nope, that recent Chinese digital is the best I can drag out to impress
the frogs with. I have easily impressed frogs here in WV though. :)
Post by Mark Wendt
Let's face it. A 500 MHz analog scope is way overkill for pretty much
anything you, I or anyone else on this list will do in their shops.
+10 at least, Mark. A 50mhz quad trace would do anything we need to do,
if they made it. That was one of the reasons I bought that newer (then)
Hitachi for the tv station, it takes a quad trace scope to setup a
DVC-PRO deck after replacing a head drum/motor assembly. And you do
that fairly frequently since head life is sub 2.5k hours run time in the
average editing booth. Its also fragile as hell when being cleaned.
Those, the first of the truly digital tape decks, caused a whole
generation of wannabe techs to be needed to keep them running well. I
couldn't hire them for any amount of money, we had by then collected the
cream of the tech minded people available locally, so I wound up doing
it all. Half the reason I retired at about 66.75 yo. Problem solved
when they converted the next generation cameras to interchangeable hard
drives as a recording medium. Sealed environment=20x more dependable.
The head assembly at $2000+, vs a $200 hard drive box anyone could plug
in. With longer recording time than the tape ever gave. Whats not to
love?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 19:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by Gene Heskett
How deep are your pockets?
[...]
Post by Mark Wendt
I'm talking about guys like me out there that collect "vintage" Tek
stuff relatively inexpensively from Ebay, hamfests, Craigslist and
other sources, and they are malfunctioning, repair them. And then run
them through the performance checks and calibrate if necessary. My
calibrations don't carry certs, but the scope will end up close enough
for gummint work, or for that matter, just about any shop work you or
I would do.
Touche'
<VBSEG>
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
And then there are the amateur metrologists out there who have full-up
cal labs in their shop, called the volt-nuts and time-nuts (I
unashamedly admit to being on both those mailing lists... ;-) ) will
cal your measuring equipment for you.
I've got close to a dozen different Tek scopes from an SC502 TM50x
mainframe plugin up to a 7854 four-bay mainframe which does waveform
calculations and has digital storage.
Power draw?
Here's the 7854 in all it's glory:

http://www.barrytech.com/tektronix/tek7000/tek7854.html

Here's a list of all the 7000 series mainframes and the plugins:

http://www.barrytech.com/tektronix/tek7000/tek7000scopes.html

The four-bay mainframes are really nice, allowing two vertical and two
timebases plugged in at one time. You can use a timebase in the vertical
slot as an amp for x-y functions too.

Don't have my 7854 manual handy, so I can't get the power numbers from it.
I know I don't really need a heater in the lab when I get the mainframes
fired up. ;-)
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
All are quite repairable should anything break.
There are a few Tek products with almost unobtanium proprietary chips
in them, but I avoid those. None of the scopes I have have those
parts.
How does one discern that?
The Tek Cross-reference manual, and from what the folks on the Tekscopes
list have found.
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
So, perhaps there's a spot in your shop that requires 20 GHz+
bandwidth digital scopes, VNA's, spectrum analyzers and such that cost
well over $20k a piece? I gotta see your shop! ;-)
Nope, that recent Chinese digital is the best I can drag out to impress
the frogs with. I have easily impressed frogs here in WV though. :)
Our bullfrogs here in MD are bowled over pretty easily too. ;-)
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Let's face it. A 500 MHz analog scope is way overkill for pretty much
anything you, I or anyone else on this list will do in their shops.
+10 at least, Mark. A 50mhz quad trace would do anything we need to do,
if they made it. That was one of the reasons I bought that newer (then)
Hitachi for the tv station, it takes a quad trace scope to setup a
DVC-PRO deck after replacing a head drum/motor assembly. And you do
that fairly frequently since head life is sub 2.5k hours run time in the
average editing booth. Its also fragile as hell when being cleaned.
Those, the first of the truly digital tape decks, caused a whole
generation of wannabe techs to be needed to keep them running well. I
couldn't hire them for any amount of money, we had by then collected the
cream of the tech minded people available locally, so I wound up doing
it all. Half the reason I retired at about 66.75 yo. Problem solved
when they converted the next generation cameras to interchangeable hard
drives as a recording medium. Sealed environment=20x more dependable.
The head assembly at $2000+, vs a $200 hard drive box anyone could plug
in. With longer recording time than the tape ever gave. Whats not to
love?
I'm kinda partial to the Tek 7000 mainframe series. There are tons of
plugins besides the horizontal and vertical amps from counters, to curve
tracers to spectrum analyzers to you name it.
Post by Gene Heskett
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Cheers,
Mark
Gene Heskett
2015-05-02 00:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wendt
Our bullfrogs here in MD are bowled over pretty easily too. ;-)
I am glad you said that. If I had, there would have been a contract out
on me.

[...]
Post by Mark Wendt
I'm kinda partial to the Tek 7000 mainframe series. There are tons of
plugins besides the horizontal and vertical amps from counters, to
curve tracers to spectrum analyzers to you name it.
Yeah, but you can't put it, a probe, and a usb cable to charge it with,
along with the DSO-1, in your polo shirt pocket. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Mark Wendt
2015-05-02 11:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Our bullfrogs here in MD are bowled over pretty easily too. ;-)
I am glad you said that. If I had, there would have been a contract out
on me.
ROFL!
Post by Gene Heskett
[...]
Post by Mark Wendt
I'm kinda partial to the Tek 7000 mainframe series. There are tons of
plugins besides the horizontal and vertical amps from counters, to
curve tracers to spectrum analyzers to you name it.
Yeah, but you can't put it, a probe, and a usb cable to charge it with,
along with the DSO-1, in your polo shirt pocket. ;-)
True dat. But your DSO-1, usb cable and probe can't do waveform
calculations, curve tracing, spectrum analyzing or have up to 1 GHz
bandwidth... ;-)

The 7000 series are lab scopes, that's for sure. But they sure are fun to
work with, and for some things, pretty much essential. Besides, if you
have enough of 'em, stick one permanently in the shop. Nobody sez ya gotta
stop at just one! ;-)

That being said, the 2000 series also make some pretty nice shop scopes,
and are pretty portable, though not pocket protector-sized.
Post by Gene Heskett
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Cheers,
mark
Gene Heskett
2015-05-02 12:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Our bullfrogs here in MD are bowled over pretty easily too. ;-)
I am glad you said that. If I had, there would have been a contract
out on me.
ROFL!
Post by Gene Heskett
[...]
Post by Mark Wendt
I'm kinda partial to the Tek 7000 mainframe series. There are
tons of plugins besides the horizontal and vertical amps from
counters, to curve tracers to spectrum analyzers to you name it.
Yeah, but you can't put it, a probe, and a usb cable to charge it
with, along with the DSO-1, in your polo shirt pocket. ;-)
True dat. But your DSO-1, usb cable and probe can't do waveform
calculations, curve tracing, spectrum analyzing or have up to 1 GHz
bandwidth... ;-)
Given the bw limit of about 4mhz, when I started out all those years ago,
the scope I inherited for a bench scope was a Hickok 505. Even that
trace could be mentally expanded to tell you a lot. Most folks see a
rounded top on a waveform at the grid of the tune and take it at face
value which to them is meaningless. But that rounded top needs to be
compared to the DC bias, something that AC coupled Hickok couldn't do.
But I learned early on that it was generally a sign of a tired tube, it
was drawing grid current when it wasn't supposed to be. If you know
what to expect, even that DSO-1 can tell you much more than the specs
would lead you to believe.

Thats 100% mental, and thats what I seem to be decent at.
Post by Mark Wendt
The 7000 series are lab scopes, that's for sure. But they sure are
fun to work with, and for some things, pretty much essential.
Besides, if you have enough of 'em, stick one permanently in the shop.
Nobody sez ya gotta stop at just one! ;-)
True, but that "lab" scope is not something you would want to slip a
couple pieces of big spaghetti on so you could close a transmitter door
on it, and standing on a plastic floor, proceed to use it to determine
the screen grid current flowing in a 4CX5000A modulator stage by
measuring the voltage drop across a 100 ohm 200 watt power resistor.
The scope is going to be sitting at nominally 1500 volts above ground,

One hand in pocket is the rule for stuff like this folks, do NOT try it
at home.

I once did that with a triple insulated 35 mhz dual trace phillips scope,
worked right well, and told me the tube was toast as during the sync
pulse, it was drawing nearly an amp of screen current, and the drop in
screen voltage was what was causing pretty extreme, uncompensatable
synch compression.

The 4CX5000a is built as a shadow grid construction internally, and
because the screens wire is physically wound to be precisely behind the
control grid wires, exerting its fixed positive voltage as both an
electron accelerant and because its well bypassed at the rf frequency,
shields the control grid from the several thousand volts of rf swing on
the plate making it quite easy to neutralize. And it all works quite
well until something sneezes, causing one or more of those wires to
overheat and sag. At that point, it is no longer precisely in the
control grids shadow and starts intercepting the edge of the electron
stream going by. That self destruction cycle continues until a tube,
despite being able to handle the amperage in terms of plate current, is
effectively burnt toast.

That was a teaching/learning moment for me. A fresh tube, at full power
will not draw more than 2.5 to 3 milliamps of screen current. And it
can run several thousand hours, but if, in the 2x an hour logging of the
meters, you note that this screen current is rising, order a fresh one
when the meter says 5 milliamps, you have about a month left because the
compression will become un compensatable by the time its showing 10
milliamps. The synch tip time is 4.7 microseconds, out of every 63.xx
microseconds. All of that 10 milliamps average is drawn in that 7.4% of
the synch pulse time.
Post by Mark Wendt
That being said, the 2000 series also make some pretty nice shop
scopes, and are pretty portable, though not pocket protector-sized.
That they were, once you had put a decent crt in them. But they are
loaded with stuff thats now made out of the purest unobtainium made.

They also have a 3rd pin grounded power cord, and because the line bypass
filtering is so weak in breakdown voltage, such a stunt as I did with
that triple insulated Phillips couldn't even be considered with the tek.
You would probably, even if the 3rd pin was removed, have used the line
cord as a fuse when the whole tx power supply, usually capable of fusing
a 16 gauge wire, would be destroyed in a flash of light accompanied by
the sound of clearing bullding entrance breakers if the transmitters own
breakers aren't fast enough. One such incident on Fisher hill resulted
in replacing a 4 ton plate transformer. And a lot of other stuff that
damned near included me. The AK-225 breaker was expected to trip off by
dropping power to the undervoltage relay. But at nearly 50 years old,
it had sat there and buzzed gently until the springs failed & didn't
have enough left to pull the trigger on the opener knee.

That too was made out of pure unobtainium in 1990 since it was then 40
yo, so, knowing they were doing a major remodel on Mon General Hospital
in Morgantown, I drove up & talked to the jobsite super to see what they
might have. They had about 20 of them lined up for the recyclers, help
yourself. So I came home with 2 and made one good one out of the 4 I
then had. And WDTV-5 was back on the air in about 4.5 days, while I was
coming down with the shingles from being electrocuted bad enough for 2nd
degree burns. But he wasn't ready for me anymore than he was when I had
the pulmonary embolism at the end of May last year.

Yeah, there is a goodly number of BTDT's in my log book. ;-)
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by Gene Heskett
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Cheers,
mark
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Erik Christiansen
2015-05-01 06:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
But I have a PITA in the machine that runs my lathe, its recently turned
into a crashomatic, with uptimes of about an hour!
And since it is an nfs mount, when it crashes, it locks up the rest of
the machines that are mounting it. Thats the PITA problem. And IMO a
damned bug in nsf4.
Gene, if the problem is not just loss of access (unavoidable once the
NFS exporter has crashed), but the lock-up you describe, then changing
the NFS mount from "hard" to "soft" should fix that.

("man nfs" says data integrity may suffer if connection is not over
TCP-IP, but I've never noticed, admittedly with now 30-year old NFS,
under Solaris)

That manpage does, though, say: "Using the intr option is preferred to
using the soft option because it is significantly less likely to result
in data corruption." But then it goes on to say it isn't much use after
kernel 2.6.25. Looks like the developers don't use NFS much.

In the old days, I used soft mounts to allow a server farm to come up
despite NFS cross-mounts. With hard mounts, and A needing B, and B
needing A, they could never come up. Using a soft mount on one side let
them boot, at the cost of a manual NFS mount a little later. (Soft
mounts on both sides could necessitate two manual NFS mounts)

Erik
--
There's no obfuscated Perl contest because it's pointless.
-Jeff Polk
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 09:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by Gene Heskett
But I have a PITA in the machine that runs my lathe, its recently
turned into a crashomatic, with uptimes of about an hour!
And since it is an nfs mount, when it crashes, it locks up the rest
of the machines that are mounting it. Thats the PITA problem. And
IMO a damned bug in nsf4.
Gene, if the problem is not just loss of access (unavoidable once the
NFS exporter has crashed), but the lock-up you describe, then changing
the NFS mount from "hard" to "soft" should fix that.
Humm, sounds like I should be reading the manpage more better. :(
Post by Erik Christiansen
("man nfs" says data integrity may suffer if connection is not over
TCP-IP, but I've never noticed, admittedly with now 30-year old NFS,
under Solaris)
That manpage does, though, say: "Using the intr option is preferred to
using the soft option because it is significantly less likely to
result in data corruption." But then it goes on to say it isn't much
use after kernel 2.6.25. Looks like the developers don't use NFS much.
In the old days, I used soft mounts to allow a server farm to come up
despite NFS cross-mounts. With hard mounts, and A needing B, and B
needing A, they could never come up. Using a soft mount on one side
let them boot, at the cost of a manual NFS mount a little later. (Soft
mounts on both sides could necessitate two manual NFS mounts)
Erik
Thanks Erik. I'll check it out.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Dave Cole
2015-05-01 15:15:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Dave Cole
Micro V belts are apparently targeted at OEMs like car manufacturers
who can make their own pulleys and order thousands of custom spec
belts.
A friend of mine tried to buy a setup for a custom machine and nothing
was off the shelf and the selection of belt lengths was very limited.
He could get a belt length that would work but the pulleys were a
custom order - expensive and 6 week delivery.
I'd go with V belts, HTD or Timing belts and forget about Micro V
belts unless you happen onto the proper parts.
Dave
Ah, Dave? Did you miss the memo? We are used to making our own special
parts. Making the pulley's doesn't seem like a particularly hard thing
to do, so that is what I am about.
But I have a PITA in the machine that runs my lathe, its recently turned
into a crashomatic, with uptimes of about an hour!
And since it is an nfs mount, when it crashes, it locks up the rest of
the machines that are mounting it. Thats the PITA problem. And IMO a
damned bug in nsf4.
I think I am going to have to find another PSU for it, there is no other
rhyme or reason for it to go away in the middle of a job, like it has
done 3x today. I padded up to the shop & tapped the reset button just
now so I'll be good for maybe an hour. But I also just commented that
line out of fstab on this machine until such time as I get that one
fixed.
Hi Gene,
Got the memo but other needs have taken precedence.. such as bringing
home the bacon etc.
Ya know... not everyone has the "luxury" of retirement yet.. ;-)

Seriously, I thought that your lathe was broke and you needed the belt
and pulleys to fix it!
That would create a catch-22 situation if you had to machine the pulleys
for the machine you needed to repair... although perhaps a crank could
be fitted.. ;-)

Dave




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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 16:26:30 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Dave Cole
Post by Gene Heskett
Ah, Dave? Did you miss the memo? We are used to making our own
special parts. Making the pulley's doesn't seem like a particularly
hard thing to do, so that is what I am about.
But I have a PITA in the machine that runs my lathe, its recently
turned into a crashomatic, with uptimes of about an hour!
And since it is an nfs mount, when it crashes, it locks up the rest
of the machines that are mounting it. Thats the PITA problem. And
IMO a damned bug in nsf4.
I think I am going to have to find another PSU for it, there is no
other rhyme or reason for it to go away in the middle of a job, like
it has done 3x today. I padded up to the shop & tapped the reset
button just now so I'll be good for maybe an hour. But I also just
commented that line out of fstab on this machine until such time as
I get that one fixed.
Hi Gene,
Got the memo but other needs have taken precedence.. such as bringing
home the bacon etc.
Ya know... not everyone has the "luxury" of retirement yet.. ;-)
I hear that loud and clear, which is why I mentioned it somewhere in this
thread.
Post by Dave Cole
Seriously, I thought that your lathe was broke and you needed the belt
and pulleys to fix it!
The lathes computer needs help, currently the rest of it is doing fairly
well if only the head was truly square to the bed. Cheap, very early
version of the Chinese 7x12. It is not according to a facing job I did
day before yesterday. I had to work the parts over on a sheet of 600
wet-r-dry on my surface plate before I could superglue them together.
So I didn't try to face the next 2 for the other pulley, just lapped the
high spots away and glued directly to the 40yo oxided faces. Much much
closer to flat that way. But I'll need to watch temps as I machine else
the superglue gets soggy in the heat. Alu doesn't carve that well when
its that hot either as we all know.
Post by Dave Cole
That would create a catch-22 situation if you had to machine the
pulleys for the machine you needed to repair... although perhaps a
crank could be fitted.. ;-)
I have resorted to the mill for the dirty work on the out of commission
lathe a couple times. Gotta get ones creative joices going for that
though. ;-)

Thanks Dave

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gregg Eshelman
2015-05-01 03:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Cole
Micro V belts are apparently targeted at OEMs like car manufacturers who
can make their own pulleys and order thousands of custom spec belts.
A friend of mine tried to buy a setup for a custom machine and nothing
was off the shelf and the selection of belt lengths was very limited.
He could get a belt length that would work but the pulleys were a custom
order - expensive and 6 week delivery.
When I fixed up a 1914 Sears Expert 13" lathe I found a multi rib belt
using Bando's catalog. They list by number of ribs and length instead of
application.

The one I got happened to be used on White/Volvo semi truck engines to
drive a pump, so a lil' 100 year old metal lathe, running the ribs on
flat pulleys, was hardly any strain. No need to release the tension
(simply the weight of motor and countershaft) when not running the lathe.


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Todd Zuercher
2015-04-30 20:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Try searching for a J section belt, I found some listed as small as 8" OC length (what ever that means).
http://beltpalace.com/heavy-duty-belts-poly-v-ribbed--j-section.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Heskett" <***@wdtv.com>
To: emc-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:16:55 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] micro-v belts, smaller

Greetings all;

I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.

Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a 3/8"
wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying to do.

What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox on
the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is selling
for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I took off the
lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors pulley will need an
8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock, while the spindle pulley
will need a 30mm hub, possibly taperlock if I can find room for it. The
two pulleys will be otherwise alike, with a 2/1 ratio when the belt is
in the reduction grooves, and a 1/2 when its in the higher speed
grooves, gfiving a variable speed range of up to 2500 in low range, and
up to 10k in high range from a 5k motor. That ought to speed up making
pcb's a bit.

Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with their
pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the popular sizes
for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3 rib 3/8" width,
shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple inches farther off
to the side than I'd like.

Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 00:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Zuercher
Try searching for a J section belt, I found some listed as small as 8"
OC length (what ever that means).
http://beltpalace.com/heavy-duty-belts-poly-v-ribbed--j-section.html
I found that belt earlier today, someplace else at about a 4 dollar bill.
Polyester back if that means much.

That one could be used if I set the motor father away than I had in mind.
If my belt length calcs are full of it. I imagine there is a formula
for unequal pulley sizes but I haven't found that one yet either.

But I think, before I even dismount that part from the chuck, that I had
better find one of those toy psu's they use in the atom powered ARK
boxes.

Thanks Todd. I may yell at the folks who had it in the $4 range tomorrow
and see if they can go a bit shorter.

But tonight, I am about used up.
Post by Todd Zuercher
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:16:55 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] micro-v belts, smaller
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a 3/8"
wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying to do.
What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox on
the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is
selling for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I
took off the lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors pulley
will need an 8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock, while the
spindle pulley will need a 30mm hub, possibly taperlock if I can find
room for it. The two pulleys will be otherwise alike, with a 2/1
ratio when the belt is in the reduction grooves, and a 1/2 when its in
the higher speed grooves, gfiving a variable speed range of up to 2500
in low range, and up to 10k in high range from a 5k motor. That ought
to speed up making pcb's a bit.
Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with
their pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the
popular sizes for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3 rib
3/8" width, shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple
inches farther off to the side than I'd like.
Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 09:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Zuercher
Try searching for a J section belt, I found some listed as small as 8" OC
length (what ever that means).
http://beltpalace.com/heavy-duty-belts-poly-v-ribbed--j-section.html
Outside circumference, maybe?

Mark
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 09:55:31 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Todd Zuercher
Post by Todd Zuercher
Try searching for a J section belt, I found some listed as small as
8" OC length (what ever that means).
http://beltpalace.com/heavy-duty-belts-poly-v-ribbed--j-section.html
Outside circumference, maybe?
Mark
Blink! That may well be the key translation to that acronym Mark, in
which case an 8" OC would be way too short. I might have to rethink how
I go about determining it. My thoughts up to now have been using
nominally 1/2 the circumference as the belt wrap distance for the amount
of belt actually in contact with the pulley's and 2x the intershaft
spacing as a SWAG to be used for length.

If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and the
smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the shafts are
100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt needed. The
dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length on the larger
pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead on I'd better look
it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the pivoting motor mount is for
anyway. :)

So a 15" OC belt would be in the ballpark. But I'd best get the pulleys
made first, if I can determine the rib spacing. I'd love to put the
motor behind the spindle, but that would intersect with the Z drive
bolt, so it will need to remain as a sideways offset. All that of
course is TBD. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Mark Wendt
2015-05-01 10:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Mark Wendt
Post by Todd Zuercher
Try searching for a J section belt, I found some listed as small as
8" OC length (what ever that means).
http://beltpalace.com/heavy-duty-belts-poly-v-ribbed--j-section.html
Outside circumference, maybe?
Mark
Blink! That may well be the key translation to that acronym Mark, in
which case an 8" OC would be way too short. I might have to rethink how
I go about determining it. My thoughts up to now have been using
nominally 1/2 the circumference as the belt wrap distance for the amount
of belt actually in contact with the pulley's and 2x the intershaft
spacing as a SWAG to be used for length.
If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and the
smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the shafts are
100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt needed. The
dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length on the larger
pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead on I'd better look
it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the pivoting motor mount is for
anyway. :)
So a 15" OC belt would be in the ballpark. But I'd best get the pulleys
made first, if I can determine the rib spacing. I'd love to put the
motor behind the spindle, but that would intersect with the Z drive
bolt, so it will need to remain as a sideways offset. All that of
course is TBD. ;-)
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Ding! Ding! We have a winnah!

http://www.durabelt.com/beltlengthcalculator.php

ID, OD, IC and OC... ;-)

Mark
Les Newell
2015-05-01 10:25:03 UTC
Permalink
I just ran the numbers and for the dimensions you gave the belt length
is almost exactly 375mm. For those sizes I'd use a HTD toothed belt.
Pulleys are fairly cheap and belts are easily available in wide range of
sizes.

It is a pity your belt is so short. Automotive poly-V belts are
available in roughly 5mm increments from 600mm upwards, widths from 3 to
8 ribs. Just for reference the part numbers for PK series poly-V belts
are easy to work out. For instance a 3PK0750 belt would be 3 rib, 750mm
pitch circumference (cut length).

Les
Post by Gene Heskett
Blink! That may well be the key translation to that acronym Mark, in
which case an 8" OC would be way too short. I might have to rethink how
I go about determining it. My thoughts up to now have been using
nominally 1/2 the circumference as the belt wrap distance for the amount
of belt actually in contact with the pulley's and 2x the intershaft
spacing as a SWAG to be used for length.
If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and the
smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the shafts are
100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt needed. The
dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length on the larger
pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead on I'd better look
it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the pivoting motor mount is for
anyway. :)
So a 15" OC belt would be in the ballpark. But I'd best get the pulleys
made first, if I can determine the rib spacing. I'd love to put the
motor behind the spindle, but that would intersect with the Z drive
bolt, so it will need to remain as a sideways offset. All that of
course is TBD. ;-)
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 15:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Newell
I just ran the numbers and for the dimensions you gave the belt length
is almost exactly 375mm. For those sizes I'd use a HTD toothed belt.
Pulleys are fairly cheap and belts are easily available in wide range
of sizes.
Well, the smaller of the two pulley sizes is subject to leaving enough
room for the taper-locks locking and jacking screws, which I intend to
install from the larger pulley side. The smaller pulley won't even be
cut until the taper-lock hub is made, and a stub shaft made that is the
same size as the spindle shaft, and the whole assembly is spinning on
that dummy shaft. Depending on available material for the bolt circle,
the small one could be even smaller than 40mm. 35mm would give a 1/2
down, or a 1/2 up. It remains to be determined if the bearings can go
to 10k rpms. I can see the thermal growth of something during a long
session of pcb etching, its so obvious I break into the code stream a
couple times in a long run and rezero the z at copper contact.

The HTD is a cogged timing belt? Yes. That probably takes the $ up by
10x as I cannot do a cogged pulley that accurately & would have to buy
them. And one thing noticeable absent in any of the pulley listings is
two sizes for a speed changer on one pulley. I can cut the
polygrove/micro-v stuff right here for nothing but my time. One page
even claimed it could run above 500 rpms, but I'll be doing 20x that as
long as the bearings don't explode.
Post by Les Newell
It is a pity your belt is so short. Automotive poly-V belts are
available in roughly 5mm increments from 600mm upwards, widths from 3
to 8 ribs. Just for reference the part numbers for PK series poly-V
belts are easy to work out. For instance a 3PK0750 belt would be 3
rib, 750mm pitch circumference (cut length).
So as projected, I would need a 3PK0375. Sounds about right.

I came to that same conclusion. Too bad this isn't my GMC pickup, but
that belt is also 50x the material and north of $50/copy, where this
stuff is piddly. :(

Thanks Les. How is your headboard carver doing these days?

Now, I'd better go see if there are any fat caps in that box. And get a
part # for it if not. Something has to be going doofy. That would give
me a good excuse to exersize my new soldering station. The iron quit in
tha 18 month old one and the outfit in star city Nebraska won't sell me
another control board. 1 year warranty. Ass holes, the whole lot of
them. But I got one just as capable from Amazon for 1/2 the bucks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Dave Cole
2015-05-01 16:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Yes, HTDs are cogged tooth pulleys. They are similar to timing belt
pulleys except the teeth are rounded.

GT2 belt pulleys are HTD like but they are a newer, improved design.

Dave
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Les Newell
I just ran the numbers and for the dimensions you gave the belt length
is almost exactly 375mm. For those sizes I'd use a HTD toothed belt.
Pulleys are fairly cheap and belts are easily available in wide range
of sizes.
Well, the smaller of the two pulley sizes is subject to leaving enough
room for the taper-locks locking and jacking screws, which I intend to
install from the larger pulley side. The smaller pulley won't even be
cut until the taper-lock hub is made, and a stub shaft made that is the
same size as the spindle shaft, and the whole assembly is spinning on
that dummy shaft. Depending on available material for the bolt circle,
the small one could be even smaller than 40mm. 35mm would give a 1/2
down, or a 1/2 up. It remains to be determined if the bearings can go
to 10k rpms. I can see the thermal growth of something during a long
session of pcb etching, its so obvious I break into the code stream a
couple times in a long run and rezero the z at copper contact.
The HTD is a cogged timing belt? Yes. That probably takes the $ up by
10x as I cannot do a cogged pulley that accurately & would have to buy
them. And one thing noticeable absent in any of the pulley listings is
two sizes for a speed changer on one pulley. I can cut the
polygrove/micro-v stuff right here for nothing but my time. One page
even claimed it could run above 500 rpms, but I'll be doing 20x that as
long as the bearings don't explode.
Post by Les Newell
It is a pity your belt is so short. Automotive poly-V belts are
available in roughly 5mm increments from 600mm upwards, widths from 3
to 8 ribs. Just for reference the part numbers for PK series poly-V
belts are easy to work out. For instance a 3PK0750 belt would be 3
rib, 750mm pitch circumference (cut length).
So as projected, I would need a 3PK0375. Sounds about right.
I came to that same conclusion. Too bad this isn't my GMC pickup, but
that belt is also 50x the material and north of $50/copy, where this
stuff is piddly. :(
Thanks Les. How is your headboard carver doing these days?
Now, I'd better go see if there are any fat caps in that box. And get a
part # for it if not. Something has to be going doofy. That would give
me a good excuse to exersize my new soldering station. The iron quit in
tha 18 month old one and the outfit in star city Nebraska won't sell me
another control board. 1 year warranty. Ass holes, the whole lot of
them. But I got one just as capable from Amazon for 1/2 the bucks.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 16:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Cole
Yes, HTDs are cogged tooth pulleys. They are similar to timing belt
pulleys except the teeth are rounded.
GT2 belt pulleys are HTD like but they are a newer, improved design.
Dave
Both of which are overpriced and accuracy overkill for this job. I am not
driving this with a stepper where you supposedly know where it is.

A 2% slippage will be handled by the computer without even sending you an
email. :)

Thanks Dave.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Erik Christiansen
2015-05-02 09:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and the
smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the shafts are
100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt needed. The
dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length on the larger
pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead on I'd better look
it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the pivoting motor mount is for
anyway. :)
Gene,

If you need 380 mm, but 600 mm is the shortest generally available,
is there room for a pair of idler pulleys off to the side, making the
whole belt path resemble a boomerang? The boomerang arms would be
significantly less than 15 cm (6") with 60 cm (2') belt length, so it
wouldn't take up a lot of room. (The outer idler would be larger than
the inner, to avoid belt fouling.) Might need a new belt cover if it's
on top of the minimill, though.

There's probably no belt length calculator for that scenario, but four
cardboard wheels cut from a beer carton, and a bit of string, ought to
suffice for non-computer modelling, I figure.

If you find a good price on poly-v belts of either length, please post
the link. It might help me start on a project still on the back burner.
(There's a few of those.)

Erik
Gene Heskett
2015-05-02 09:52:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by Gene Heskett
If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and the
smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the shafts
are 100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt needed.
The dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length on the
larger pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead on I'd
better look it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the pivoting
motor mount is for anyway. :)
Gene,
If you need 380 mm, but 600 mm is the shortest generally available,
is there room for a pair of idler pulleys off to the side, making the
whole belt path resemble a boomerang? The boomerang arms would be
significantly less than 15 cm (6") with 60 cm (2') belt length, so it
wouldn't take up a lot of room. (The outer idler would be larger than
the inner, to avoid belt fouling.) Might need a new belt cover if it's
on top of the minimill, though.
There's probably no belt length calculator for that scenario, but four
cardboard wheels cut from a beer carton, and a bit of string, ought to
suffice for non-computer modelling, I figure.
If you find a good price on poly-v belts of either length, please post
the link. It might help me start on a project still on the back
burner. (There's a few of those.)
Erik
I expect I will, Erik. I do tend to report progress as you have
observed.

I just woke up with another thought about the crashing. Something in
that install, same install cd was used, is tickling the drive led at
about 1.5 second intervals. The other, supposedly identical machine has
never done that. And this crasher has already destroyed one hard
drive.. Methinks I am going to log into it, and install htop, something
tickling the drive that often ought to be right at the top of the cpu
usage list.

I'll post the result of that too.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gregg Eshelman
2015-05-03 06:05:35 UTC
Permalink
Have a look at
http://beltpalace.com/heavy-duty-belts-poly-v-ribbed--j-section.html

Says they have a limited selection online, call for more info.

After some more digging, what you need is a 360mm, J section, 3 rib belt
AKA a 360J3.

$4.57 "usually in stock" here
http://www.industrialzone.com/369806-gates-360j3.html?gclid=CK-NvfbxpMUCFQiDfgodcoMAFA

80 to 1000 mm, how many ribs do you want?
http://www.beltsforanything.com/site59.php

Dimensions for J section, also H and K which are a bit smaller.
http://www.torquetrans.com/custom-multi-ribbed

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Gene Heskett
2015-05-03 09:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregg Eshelman
Have a look at
http://beltpalace.com/heavy-duty-belts-poly-v-ribbed--j-section.html
Says they have a limited selection online, call for more info.
After some more digging, what you need is a 360mm, J section, 3 rib
belt AKA a 360J3.
$4.57 "usually in stock" here
http://www.industrialzone.com/369806-gates-360j3.html?gclid=CK-NvfbxpM
UCFQiDfgodcoMAFA
80 to 1000 mm, how many ribs do you want?
http://www.beltsforanything.com/site59.php
Dimensions for J section, also H and K which are a bit smaller.
http://www.torquetrans.com/custom-multi-ribbed
Bookmarked & printed, just what doc Gene ordered, thank you very much
Gregg. Now, I have 1/2" of pulley width for each pulley section. From
those drawings, that infers that in 1/2" I'd have room for 5 ribs of
a "j" belt. That would be 15/32" wide, or in metric, 11.90625mm wide.
That would have sharp outer pulley edges though, so I am inclined to
make and get the 4 rib versions leaving a relatively wide outer edge.

The next consideration would be the smaller pulleys reduced radii, and
belt heating when its wrapped around a 35mm pulley. Not to mention
spindle bearing heating. When in the step up mode 5k revs is going to
be close to 10k revs on the smaller pulley & bearings. I assume that has
to generate additional heat in the bearings. With the diameter of my
starter steel, the flange for the draw and jack bolts is not going to
leave enough real estate, determined by the results yesterday. So I'll
have to find larger OD piece of shafting for the raw starter. This one
now has too big a center hole drilled for a taperlock to fit an 8mm
motor shaft I think as the last drill before I tore up the wiring was a
hair under 10mm. So that one will not be salvageable for the motors
hub. There is however, more steel sticking out of the chuck. I just
need to make even more swarf. :)

I should have a bigger piece in the midden heap on the floor under the
shelf that holds the keyboard etc for the mill. If not, I know exactly
where to go & get it. But it is about a 100 mile round trip, over some
roads that would break a snakes back. This is after all, West Virginia.
We have a surplus of hills they built the roads "around".

Thanks Gregg.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gene Heskett
2015-05-02 10:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by Gene Heskett
If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and the
smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the shafts
are 100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt needed.
The dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length on the
larger pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead on I'd
better look it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the pivoting
motor mount is for anyway. :)
Gene,
If you need 380 mm, but 600 mm is the shortest generally available,
is there room for a pair of idler pulleys off to the side, making the
whole belt path resemble a boomerang? The boomerang arms would be
significantly less than 15 cm (6") with 60 cm (2') belt length, so it
wouldn't take up a lot of room. (The outer idler would be larger than
the inner, to avoid belt fouling.) Might need a new belt cover if it's
on top of the minimill, though.
There's probably no belt length calculator for that scenario, but four
cardboard wheels cut from a beer carton, and a bit of string, ought to
suffice for non-computer modelling, I figure.
If you find a good price on poly-v belts of either length, please post
the link. It might help me start on a project still on the back
burner. (There's a few of those.)
Erik
My snooping around the net yesterday would seem to indicate that belts
down to around 190mm can be had, so I don't think I'll have to resort to
that sort of tom-foolery.

But first I need to find why that box is crashing. There's a couple
questions in the previous post that I am hoping someone can answer.

Thanks Erik.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Dave Cole
2015-05-02 14:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Gene,

Have you looked at this source for belts?? I see a 15" belt...

http://www.vbeltsupply.com/k-series-poly?cat=248

I've purchased V belts from this place before for my finish mower that I
pull with a tractor. Locally belts for it were near $80 each.
They sell them for about $25 each. The belts they supplied were as
good or better than what I could buy locally.

Dave
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by Gene Heskett
If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and the
smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the shafts
are 100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt needed.
The dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length on the
larger pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead on I'd
better look it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the pivoting
motor mount is for anyway. :)
Gene,
If you need 380 mm, but 600 mm is the shortest generally available,
is there room for a pair of idler pulleys off to the side, making the
whole belt path resemble a boomerang? The boomerang arms would be
significantly less than 15 cm (6") with 60 cm (2') belt length, so it
wouldn't take up a lot of room. (The outer idler would be larger than
the inner, to avoid belt fouling.) Might need a new belt cover if it's
on top of the minimill, though.
There's probably no belt length calculator for that scenario, but four
cardboard wheels cut from a beer carton, and a bit of string, ought to
suffice for non-computer modelling, I figure.
If you find a good price on poly-v belts of either length, please post
the link. It might help me start on a project still on the back
burner. (There's a few of those.)
Erik
My snooping around the net yesterday would seem to indicate that belts
down to around 190mm can be had, so I don't think I'll have to resort to
that sort of tom-foolery.
But first I need to find why that box is crashing. There's a couple
questions in the previous post that I am hoping someone can answer.
Thanks Erik.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Gene Heskett
2015-05-02 16:51:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Cole
Gene,
Have you looked at this source for belts?? I see a 15" belt...
http://www.vbeltsupply.com/k-series-poly?cat=248
I've purchased V belts from this place before for my finish mower that
I pull with a tractor. Locally belts for it were near $80 each. They
sell them for about $25 each. The belts they supplied were as good
or better than what I could buy locally.
Dave
That doesn't hit it exactly but a search for a 384K3, which would be
15.11" comes up with a solid hit. And from the drawings the 3.56 mm
spacing says I can put that on a 1/2" wide pulley rim with a bit of room
to spare. Their sort by title is busted, it starts with 1000khuge and
works up into the 300's about 17 pages in. :(

They do not say, but I have to assume the 384 is the length in mm's. And
at $3.16/copy, thats certainly affordable enough to buy spares. I think
I will have fun grinding the rib profile on a cutoff tool bar to make it
though, that is a quite narrow included angle, with lots of material to
remove at the bottom of the rib. But I'll have to call them Monday to
get the rest of the measurements. Unless someone here has a copy of
the "K" profile they can share? Hint hint. ;) Probably better off in
terms of z flex on that thin cutoff tool, to set up the right angle and
do one side of a 1/4" tool to half that angle.

But that is not todays job, making the OD of the first taperlock hub
is. ;-)
Post by Dave Cole
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by Gene Heskett
If the larger pulley is 70mm, thats nominally 110mm of wrap, and
the smaller pulley is 40mm, thats 62mm of belt wrapped, and the
shafts are 100mm apart, I'd have 110+62+200=372 to 380mm of belt
needed. The dis-similar sizes will of course give more wrap length
on the larger pulley and less on tha smaller pulley, so to be dead
on I'd better look it up in the Handbook. OTOH, thats what the
pivoting motor mount is for anyway. :)
Gene,
If you need 380 mm, but 600 mm is the shortest generally available,
is there room for a pair of idler pulleys off to the side, making
the whole belt path resemble a boomerang? The boomerang arms would
be significantly less than 15 cm (6") with 60 cm (2') belt length,
so it wouldn't take up a lot of room. (The outer idler would be
larger than the inner, to avoid belt fouling.) Might need a new
belt cover if it's on top of the minimill, though.
There's probably no belt length calculator for that scenario, but
four cardboard wheels cut from a beer carton, and a bit of string,
ought to suffice for non-computer modelling, I figure.
If you find a good price on poly-v belts of either length, please
post the link. It might help me start on a project still on the
back burner. (There's a few of those.)
Erik
My snooping around the net yesterday would seem to indicate that
belts down to around 190mm can be had, so I don't think I'll have to
resort to that sort of tom-foolery.
But first I need to find why that box is crashing. There's a couple
questions in the previous post that I am hoping someone can answer.
Thanks Erik.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Les Newell
2015-05-05 12:28:31 UTC
Permalink
I work out belt lengths using CAD. Draw the pulleys as simple circles in
their respective places then draw the belt path from pulley to pulley
(my cad has a tangent snap making this really easy). Cut out the
unwanted bits of the pulleys leaving the belt path as one continuous
outline. Use the measure tool to measure the length of the outline. It
takes very little time and gives an accurate result for any combination
of pulleys.

Les
Post by Erik Christiansen
There's probably no belt length calculator for that scenario, but four
cardboard wheels cut from a beer carton, and a bit of string, ought to
suffice for non-computer modelling, I figure. If you find a good price
on poly-v belts of either length, please post the link. It might help
me start on a project still on the back burner. (There's a few of
those.) Erik
andy pugh
2015-05-05 12:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Newell
I work out belt lengths using CAD. Draw the pulleys as simple circles in
their respective places
Which diameter works best? I can think of a feww possibilities and I
am not sure which one they use for belt lengths.
I have tended to use the calculator on the HPC web site:
http://www.hpcgears.com/n/left_menu/calc/calc.php
--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
Les Newell
2015-05-05 12:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Andy,

The CAD method works well for multi-pulley setups or if you just want to
find the belt length and already know the pulley diameters and approx
centres. If you are playing with diameters and spacing a calculator like
the one you linked is definitely the way to go. It gets pretty tedious
redrawing everything unless you have parametric cad.

Les
Post by andy pugh
Post by Les Newell
I work out belt lengths using CAD. Draw the pulleys as simple circles in
their respective places
Which diameter works best? I can think of a feww possibilities and I
am not sure which one they use for belt lengths.
http://www.hpcgears.com/n/left_menu/calc/calc.php
Gregg Eshelman
2015-05-06 00:50:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Newell
Hi Andy,
The CAD method works well for multi-pulley setups or if you just want to
find the belt length and already know the pulley diameters and approx
centres. If you are playing with diameters and spacing a calculator like
the one you linked is definitely the way to go. It gets pretty tedious
redrawing everything unless you have parametric cad.
Or if you have the gizmo built with pulleys in place you can run a 1/4"
wide flat tape measure around them.

I always have such a tape in a pocket, along with 3 to 5 pocket knives
and a small adjustable wrench. I need to get another little pair of
Diamond multi-position pliers. (Like mini Channel Lock pliers.) Wore out
the last one I had.

One of the knives has flat and phillips screwdriver, a little pair of
scissors and various other tools. It was a freebie from one of those
outfits that laser engraves business names on things. Wore the engraving
off in a couple weeks.

I always feel a bit lighter any time I have to go into a government
building... ;)

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Gene Heskett
2015-05-05 14:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Les Newell
I work out belt lengths using CAD. Draw the pulleys as simple
circles in their respective places
Which diameter works best? I can think of a feww possibilities and I
am not sure which one they use for belt lengths.
http://www.hpcgears.com/n/left_menu/calc/calc.php
Bookmarked as important FFR, Andy, thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
N. Christopher Perry
2015-04-30 22:19:57 UTC
Permalink
Have you tried SDP?: SDP-SI.com

N. Christopher Perry
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a 3/8"
wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying to do.
What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox on
the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is selling
for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I took off the
lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors pulley will need an
8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock, while the spindle pulley
will need a 30mm hub, possibly taperlock if I can find room for it. The
two pulleys will be otherwise alike, with a 2/1 ratio when the belt is
in the reduction grooves, and a 1/2 when its in the higher speed
grooves, gfiving a variable speed range of up to 2500 in low range, and
up to 10k in high range from a 5k motor. That ought to speed up making
pcb's a bit.
Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with their
pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the popular sizes
for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3 rib 3/8" width,
shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple inches farther off
to the side than I'd like.
Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 00:13:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Have you tried SDP?: SDP-SI.com
N. Christopher Perry
Thanks Christopher. I got an estimate for a belt & 2 timing pulleys from
them about a year ago, but they wanted well over $300. I was tempted to
ask if the pulley's were made out of gold, but restrained myself. Even
at that price it wasn't quite what I asked for...

After that, my thoughts are that they would be about the last line on the
list.
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a
3/8" wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying
to do.
What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox
on the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is
selling for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I
took off the lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors
pulley will need an 8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock,
while the spindle pulley will need a 30mm hub, possibly taperlock if
I can find room for it. The two pulleys will be otherwise alike,
with a 2/1 ratio when the belt is in the reduction grooves, and a
1/2 when its in the higher speed grooves, gfiving a variable speed
range of up to 2500 in low range, and up to 10k in high range from a
5k motor. That ought to speed up making pcb's a bit.
Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with
their pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the
popular sizes for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3
rib 3/8" width, shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple
inches farther off to the side than I'd like.
Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
N. Christopher Perry
2015-05-01 01:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Ouch! They've been reasonable for the stuff I've been looking for recently, so I thought they might be worth a look. That quote would have given me sticker shock too.

N. Christopher Perry
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Have you tried SDP?: SDP-SI.com
N. Christopher Perry
Thanks Christopher. I got an estimate for a belt & 2 timing pulleys from
them about a year ago, but they wanted well over $300. I was tempted to
ask if the pulley's were made out of gold, but restrained myself. Even
at that price it wasn't quite what I asked for...
After that, my thoughts are that they would be about the last line on the
list.
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a
3/8" wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying
to do.
What I have, under design but not carved just yet, would be a set of
pulley's to be used on my toy mill when I remove the whole gearbox
on the spindle and replace it with something resembling the LMS is
selling for the mini-mill. But the motor will be the 400 watter I
took off the lathe when I pout the 1 horse on it, so the motors
pulley will need an 8mm hub, probably another shop made taperlock,
while the spindle pulley will need a 30mm hub, possibly taperlock if
I can find room for it. The two pulleys will be otherwise alike,
with a 2/1 ratio when the belt is in the reduction grooves, and a
1/2 when its in the higher speed grooves, gfiving a variable speed
range of up to 2500 in low range, and up to 10k in high range from a
5k motor. That ought to speed up making pcb's a bit.
Unforch, on the gates site, no real data unless I kill a tree with
their pdf catalog. Other sites, which obviously stock only the
popular sizes for automotive useage, do not show anything in the 3
rib 3/8" width, shorter that 21". That would put the motor a couple
inches farther off to the side than I'd like.
Has anyone else found such smallish beasts and can give me a URL?
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- One dashboard for servers and applications across
Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with
50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give
you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction
tracing using APM Insight.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
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50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you
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_______________________________________________
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
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MC Cason
2015-05-01 02:21:36 UTC
Permalink
They also have high shipping costs. A $15.00 MXL timing belt, was going
to cost me $18.00 to ship, so I decided to go elsewhere.
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Ouch! They've been reasonable for the stuff I've been looking for recently, so I thought they might be worth a look. That quote would have given me sticker shock too.
N. Christopher Perry
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Have you tried SDP?: SDP-SI.com
N. Christopher Perry
Thanks Christopher. I got an estimate for a belt & 2 timing pulleys from
them about a year ago, but they wanted well over $300. I was tempted to
ask if the pulley's were made out of gold, but restrained myself. Even
at that price it wasn't quite what I asked for...
After that, my thoughts are that they would be about the last line on the
list.
--
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 03:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Ouch! They've been reasonable for the stuff I've been looking for
recently, so I thought they might be worth a look. That quote would
have given me sticker shock too.
N. Christopher Perry
I think, for those of you using this stuff to make a living, that its
probably a persuable idea, if the delivery times were like overnight so
you could get back to work.

Being retired, and the senior member of this list, my time limit is when
I run out of time & forget to wake up in the morning. :) If it takes me
2 or 3 hours a day for a week or more to make the pulley's for this, it
is not that big a deal. ATM I have 2 or 3 other projects not related to
this, like cut some edge fillets out of a plastic sump pit, which is
easier that chisling the cement away precisely with a 57lb electric
jackhammer so the sump sits solidly on its flange, then I can mix up
enough cement to refill one edge of the hole, I had to move it away from
an outside wall of my basement when I ran into the house foundation
about 5" down, so I had to move the hole about 6 or 7". Get that done,
and some permanent 1.25" line up to a extra deep P trap just beyond the
tub/showers trap and deliver the water to the far end of the house where
it will enter at the head end of the system, thereby helping to keep it
flushed.

This place was built in '74, by a contractor that couldn't pass the
plumbers test if we gave him the answers. There are, I'm sure you've
heard, just 3 answers, shit runs downhill (fail), hots on the left
(passed) and payday is on Friday.

Then I went over to Lowes yesterday and bought all the 8' treated 2x6's
they had that were good enough for deck planking, and started ripping
out the 2x4's I put down in 2003 or so when I put a front deck on my
shop building, but figured CWF would be good to make it keep. Silly me.
The neighbors across the back fence have something that looks sorta like
a maple that shades the shop somewhat, but it sheds so much junk it
keeps a soggy mass of litter that would need cleaned up and burnt about
weekly, which of course hasn't been done. Net result is that I have put
a foot thru it in 2 places now & feel like it could be quite a few more
if I don't walk my 170lbs around carefully.

So I brought the last 5 gollon bucket of clay from the pit up this
morning, then threw a 60lb bag of sackrete on the riders hood & drove it
around to the back porch, put it back on the 2 wheeler and took it to
the basement and brought the sump up so I can trim that plastic away
outside, keeping the stink away from the Mrs & her COPD.

That about wore my back out so I spent the rest of the afternoon working
on the first pulley, fighting with the lathes computer as its uptimes
recently have been hours, crashed 3 times on me while doing that. It
will be made from 2 pieces of 1/2" fairly hard alu, lapped a while on
600 grit on a granite surface plate, then wet with superglue and clamped
overnight. One piece is held in my 4 jaw, and the other piece was
turned until it was clean & about 71mm in diameter, then tried to bore a
taper-lock hole all the way thru it at the usual 3/4" a foot taper. I
think its big enough, but will re-measure and increase the diameter if
needed to get about 1mm of steel minimum between the alu and a 20mm
shaft. Once thats done, make the hub out of old mine shafting and slit
it at 90 degrees, then drill & tap the 6 holes for some 6-32 screws.
Make a 20mm shaft to put it on for the rest of the rib machining. So
1/2" of it will have a pitch diameter of about 67mm, and the other half
inch will be turned down to around 42mm, and ribbed for about a 38mm
pitch diameter. Using a 3 rib belt I think. The 2nd pulley assembly will
be just like it, except the taperlock will fit the 8mm shaft on this 400
watt motor I took out of the lathe. If I can arrange it, the faces of
the two pulleys won't clear each other more than 5 or 10 thou, putting
the motor much closer to where I want it.

With 2 pulleys like that I'll have a stepdown, or a stepup in spindle
revs, depending on which pulleys the belt is positioned at. The up is
sorely needed when doing a pcb etch mechanically. Or carving the fingers
on more of the Green & Green style furniture. I obviously do a lot of
this by the seat of my pants. :)

So I have plenty to keep me as busy as I want to be at what is now 80 yo.

And its next to find a psu for that computer, its an ARK shoebox, with a
D525MW mobo in it and some sort of a psu that looks like a lappy's psu
without the candy bar outer box. IIRC. Need to look again. Tomorrow
if its not raining. That pretty girl on tv says its likely.

Now that I have bored everone out of their skulls, I'll get me coat & say
goodnight all. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gregg Eshelman
2015-05-01 03:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a 3/8"
wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying to do.
You may have some luck googling fractional horsepower micro rib belt


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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 03:45:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gregg Eshelman
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
I have been snooping around with my google-fu, and coming up a bit long.
Long as in the smallest of tese belts with a kevlar backing, is a
3/8" wide 3 ribber, 21" long. That is too long for what I am trying
to do.
You may have some luck googling fractional horsepower micro rib belt
I did, and got a bit closer, looks like I found 2 even smaller than the J
family, but the rib widths on the small stuff seem to be a very tightly
guarded secret. I can cut grooves most any width, & included angle but
I have to know the rib to rib spacing. Get on the horn & lean on some
of them tomorrow for full engineering drawings of the sheeve they expect
to run on I guess. Tried to dl the gates pdf a couple times but
iceweasel seems to be allergic to the links provided. It has worked
nicely several times before.

Thanks Gregg.
Post by Gregg Eshelman
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Roland Jollivet
2015-05-01 05:00:50 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gene

Have you looked at RS components?

http://za.rs-online.com/web/c/pneumatics-hydraulics-power-transmission/power-transmission-belts/timing-belts/?sra=p

Regards
Roland
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by N. Christopher Perry
Ouch! They've been reasonable for the stuff I've been looking for
recently, so I thought they might be worth a look. That quote would
have given me sticker shock too.
N. Christopher Perry
I think, for those of you using this stuff to make a living, that its
probably a persuable idea, if the delivery times were like overnight so
you could get back to work.
Being retired, and the senior member of this list, my time limit is when
I run out of time & forget to wake up in the morning. :) If it takes me
2 or 3 hours a day for a week or more to make the pulley's for this, it
is not that big a deal. ATM I have 2 or 3 other projects not related to
this, like cut some edge fillets out of a plastic sump pit, which is
easier that chisling the cement away precisely with a 57lb electric
jackhammer so the sump sits solidly on its flange, then I can mix up
enough cement to refill one edge of the hole, I had to move it away from
an outside wall of my basement when I ran into the house foundation
about 5" down, so I had to move the hole about 6 or 7". Get that done,
and some permanent 1.25" line up to a extra deep P trap just beyond the
tub/showers trap and deliver the water to the far end of the house where
it will enter at the head end of the system, thereby helping to keep it
flushed.
This place was built in '74, by a contractor that couldn't pass the
plumbers test if we gave him the answers. There are, I'm sure you've
heard, just 3 answers, shit runs downhill (fail), hots on the left
(passed) and payday is on Friday.
Then I went over to Lowes yesterday and bought all the 8' treated 2x6's
they had that were good enough for deck planking, and started ripping
out the 2x4's I put down in 2003 or so when I put a front deck on my
shop building, but figured CWF would be good to make it keep. Silly me.
The neighbors across the back fence have something that looks sorta like
a maple that shades the shop somewhat, but it sheds so much junk it
keeps a soggy mass of litter that would need cleaned up and burnt about
weekly, which of course hasn't been done. Net result is that I have put
a foot thru it in 2 places now & feel like it could be quite a few more
if I don't walk my 170lbs around carefully.
So I brought the last 5 gollon bucket of clay from the pit up this
morning, then threw a 60lb bag of sackrete on the riders hood & drove it
around to the back porch, put it back on the 2 wheeler and took it to
the basement and brought the sump up so I can trim that plastic away
outside, keeping the stink away from the Mrs & her COPD.
That about wore my back out so I spent the rest of the afternoon working
on the first pulley, fighting with the lathes computer as its uptimes
recently have been hours, crashed 3 times on me while doing that. It
will be made from 2 pieces of 1/2" fairly hard alu, lapped a while on
600 grit on a granite surface plate, then wet with superglue and clamped
overnight. One piece is held in my 4 jaw, and the other piece was
turned until it was clean & about 71mm in diameter, then tried to bore a
taper-lock hole all the way thru it at the usual 3/4" a foot taper. I
think its big enough, but will re-measure and increase the diameter if
needed to get about 1mm of steel minimum between the alu and a 20mm
shaft. Once thats done, make the hub out of old mine shafting and slit
it at 90 degrees, then drill & tap the 6 holes for some 6-32 screws.
Make a 20mm shaft to put it on for the rest of the rib machining. So
1/2" of it will have a pitch diameter of about 67mm, and the other half
inch will be turned down to around 42mm, and ribbed for about a 38mm
pitch diameter. Using a 3 rib belt I think. The 2nd pulley assembly will
be just like it, except the taperlock will fit the 8mm shaft on this 400
watt motor I took out of the lathe. If I can arrange it, the faces of
the two pulleys won't clear each other more than 5 or 10 thou, putting
the motor much closer to where I want it.
With 2 pulleys like that I'll have a stepdown, or a stepup in spindle
revs, depending on which pulleys the belt is positioned at. The up is
sorely needed when doing a pcb etch mechanically. Or carving the fingers
on more of the Green & Green style furniture. I obviously do a lot of
this by the seat of my pants. :)
So I have plenty to keep me as busy as I want to be at what is now 80 yo.
And its next to find a psu for that computer, its an ARK shoebox, with a
D525MW mobo in it and some sort of a psu that looks like a lappy's psu
without the candy bar outer box. IIRC. Need to look again. Tomorrow
if its not raining. That pretty girl on tv says its likely.
Now that I have bored everone out of their skulls, I'll get me coat & say
goodnight all. ;-)
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 09:02:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Jollivet
Hi Gene
Have you looked at RS components?
http://za.rs-online.com/web/c/pneumatics-hydraulics-power-transmission
/power-transmission-belts/timing-belts/?sra=p
Regards
Roland
I wasn't looking for timing belts Roland. I backed up but never did
find any micro-v or polygroove types. And no clue what sort of money
denomination they ask, but with starting prices ranging upwards from 96
of whatever it is, I backed away quickly.

As for timing with cogged belts, an quadrature encoder on the spindle
with feedback will handle that adequately.

Thanks for looking Roland.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Roland Jollivet
2015-05-01 09:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gene

I only saw 'V' after I posted. But for such light duty, why not use a flat
belt made to order? They're easy to get.
There's also Habisat belts.

Regards
Roland
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Roland Jollivet
Hi Gene
Have you looked at RS components?
http://za.rs-online.com/web/c/pneumatics-hydraulics-power-transmission
/power-transmission-belts/timing-belts/?sra=p
Regards
Roland
I wasn't looking for timing belts Roland. I backed up but never did
find any micro-v or polygroove types. And no clue what sort of money
denomination they ask, but with starting prices ranging upwards from 96
of whatever it is, I backed away quickly.
As for timing with cogged belts, an quadrature encoder on the spindle
with feedback will handle that adequately.
Thanks for looking Roland.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
_______________________________________________
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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 10:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Jollivet
Hi Gene
I only saw 'V' after I posted. But for such light duty, why not use a
flat belt made to order? They're easy to get.
There's also Habisat belts.
Regards
Roland
What sort of a critter are they?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
andy pugh
2015-05-01 11:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
I wasn't looking for timing belts Roland. I backed up but never did
find any micro-v or polygroove types. And no clue what sort of money
denomination they ask, but with starting prices ranging upwards from 96
of whatever it is, I backed away quickly.
Rand will look expensive. £ will look cheap:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/timing-belts/4749507/

But they don't do Poly-V.

Given that you can't find the belt and you have to make the pulleys,
why not use a toothed belt?
--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
John Kasunich
2015-05-01 13:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Given that you can't find the belt and you have to make the pulleys,
why not use a toothed belt?
Making a poly-V belt pulley is simple lathe work. Making a timing
belt pulley means cutting the teeth. Much more complicated.

He could probably buy a timing belt pulley, but since its for a lathe
spindle it probably needs a larger-than-normal bore. So it's likely
to need re-worked anyway.
--
John Kasunich
***@fastmail.fm
andy pugh
2015-05-01 14:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kasunich
Making a poly-V belt pulley is simple lathe work. Making a timing
belt pulley means cutting the teeth. Much more complicated.
You just need to know the right people:

--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
Dave Cole
2015-05-01 15:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by John Kasunich
Making a poly-V belt pulley is simple lathe work. Making a timing
belt pulley means cutting the teeth. Much more complicated.
http://youtu.be/ltmZrDrt6pQ
Are you taking orders?

I wanted to order two custom HTD pulleys last year - about October time
frame. Standard pulleys were not available that could be re-machined
to work.
One was about 5" in diameter, the other about 2 1/2" diameter.
There is a custom pulley manufacturer in Laporte, Indiana, USA about two
hours from me and I sent them the specs and I got a quote back for about
$450 for both of them. The lead time to get the pulleys was about 6
weeks. My customer was anxious (he was anxious about everything) and
money was not an issue. So I called the manufacturer and asked them if
the pulleys could be made in less time - and that I was willing to pay a
lot more. They called back and said no, they could not be made in less
than 6 weeks no matter what the cost! Machinists (not machine
operators) are in short supply in the Midwest USA and that seems to be
creating situations like this. I gave up on the custom pulleys and
ended up using twin V belts which was a lot less desirable.

Dave

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andy pugh
2015-05-01 15:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Cole
Post by andy pugh
http://youtu.be/ltmZrDrt6pQ
Are you taking orders?
Send the blanks, I can put teeth on. But only metric T5 at the moment.
If you can see the belt profile you want here then I can do it and
keep the hob as payment.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=tony4cats&_nkw=hob
--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
Dave Cole
2015-05-01 16:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Dave Cole
Post by andy pugh
http://youtu.be/ltmZrDrt6pQ
Are you taking orders?
Send the blanks, I can put teeth on. But only metric T5 at the moment.
If you can see the belt profile you want here then I can do it and
keep the hob as payment.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=tony4cats&_nkw=hob
That would be an excellent deal.

I have another application on a different machine. Let me find out if
that situation has been solved yet. Another guy was chasing that
issue. Same problem. Custom pulleys were more than 6 weeks out no
matter what the money. The blanks are easy to make up.

Dave

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Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 16:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by John Kasunich
Making a poly-V belt pulley is simple lathe work. Making a timing
belt pulley means cutting the teeth. Much more complicated.
http://youtu.be/ltmZrDrt6pQ
And have the right machine... I have a table for my mill, and a round
bottom gully would be a piece of cake but would need entry and exit
clearances I am not able to calculate. I'll pass on that. The encoder
I'll install at the same time will give me the rotational accuracy for
rigid threading. TBT, to do a toothed pulley I'd have to go spend 500$
on a better table to do that right. I would NOT trust this one for 1
degree accuracy, and certainly not for eccentricity as it has no MT
tapered center hole at all. $100 4" from Grizzly with a made in india
sticker on it. My putting a 425 oz motor on it doesn't help that. I'd
need a 3" 4 jaw to adequately center the workpiece. It does a great job
of sharpening bits at the correct angles against a diamond disk
though. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 15:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kasunich
Post by andy pugh
Given that you can't find the belt and you have to make the pulleys,
why not use a toothed belt?
Making a poly-V belt pulley is simple lathe work. Making a timing
belt pulley means cutting the teeth. Much more complicated.
He could probably buy a timing belt pulley, but since its for a lathe
spindle it probably needs a larger-than-normal bore. So it's likely
to need re-worked anyway.
Naw, in this case John, its the spindle in my toy mill, originally a
micromill. Motor shaft is 8mm, spindle shaft is 20mm OD. The gears are
about shot, rattling to beat the band, and I have this 400 watt motor I
took out of the toy lathe. Might as well use it.

The lathes spindle is another story. One that may be fixed with a bigger
machine. There is a 100+ yo Porter sitting out in the weather right
here in town I can have to 5 pix of Ben, but the motor mount looks like
it needs a 40 horse to turn it. Some bed cleanup, and 3 grand in screws
might make it a good tool again. 14" chuck, about an 8 foot bed. No
space for anything like that though without changing the number on the
front of the house AND the street name. My pockets are not THAT deep.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Gene Heskett
2015-05-01 15:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
I wasn't looking for timing belts Roland. I backed up but never
did find any micro-v or polygroove types. And no clue what sort of
money denomination they ask, but with starting prices ranging
upwards from 96 of whatever it is, I backed away quickly.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/timing-belts/4749507/
But they don't do Poly-V.
Given that you can't find the belt and you have to make the pulleys,
why not use a toothed belt?
Cost of toothed pulleys?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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