Discussion:
[Emc-users] change of subject, brass or copper?
Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 01:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Greetings all;

My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or copper to
make some more better shoes.

Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the fairly
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?

Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Trent Hejazi
2017-07-16 02:00:44 UTC
Permalink
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When supporting the
barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them. Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way to
circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim cut
concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of inboard and
outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock. This really
depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you are working
with.

Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or copper to
make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the fairly
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 03:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well.
I'll get a brass bar yet tonight then, thanks.
Post by Trent Hejazi
When supporting the
barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Threads on a p-17 are square, 10 tpi. I already have a tool ground for
that.
Post by Trent Hejazi
Otherwise, they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only
way to circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim
cut concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of
inboard and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock.
This really depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you
are working with.
Fortunately, the spindle will pass the barrel nicely all the way.

It looks like I'll have to make the spider bolts, so I may as well get a
foot of 1/2" brass hex stock while I'm at it.

Currently working on a piece of 3/4" steel, crooked as a dogs hind leg,
need to fit the action on it between centers so I can face it square.
But first I had to shim the tailstock for elevation, it was about 25
thou low.

Then figure out a way to spin the bolt as its face is about 3.5 thou out
of square. Thats hard on brass. Then measuring the tenon after getting
it out, it doesn't match the drawing I have by as much as 37 thou in one
measurement. And I need to make a headspace gauge as I've not managed
to find one for the 6.5 C.M. Yet. Lots of work before I actually chuck
up the barrel.

And I found today, that the scroll in this 3 jaw chuck is an absolute
piece of crap. So I am tightening it, measuring the runnout, loosening
the mount bolts and tapping it gently to make it run true at the size
its currently tightened on. This chuck, a Polish Bison that looks brand
new, must be a very poor factory second to be that far off. I already
cut the registration in the backplate down some so I could move it
around.

Honeydo's call. :)
Post by Trent Hejazi
Marshall
Thanks Marshal.
Post by Trent Hejazi
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or copper
to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
----- ----
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Emc-users mailing list
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Danny Miller
2017-07-16 04:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Look up CA954 aluminum bronze.

Very good sliding surface on stainless.

Danny
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well.
I'll get a brass bar yet tonight then, thanks.
Post by Trent Hejazi
When supporting the
barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Threads on a p-17 are square, 10 tpi. I already have a tool ground for
that.
Post by Trent Hejazi
Otherwise, they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only
way to circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim
cut concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of
inboard and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock.
This really depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you
are working with.
Fortunately, the spindle will pass the barrel nicely all the way.
It looks like I'll have to make the spider bolts, so I may as well get a
foot of 1/2" brass hex stock while I'm at it.
Currently working on a piece of 3/4" steel, crooked as a dogs hind leg,
need to fit the action on it between centers so I can face it square.
But first I had to shim the tailstock for elevation, it was about 25
thou low.
Then figure out a way to spin the bolt as its face is about 3.5 thou out
of square. Thats hard on brass. Then measuring the tenon after getting
it out, it doesn't match the drawing I have by as much as 37 thou in one
measurement. And I need to make a headspace gauge as I've not managed
to find one for the 6.5 C.M. Yet. Lots of work before I actually chuck
up the barrel.
And I found today, that the scroll in this 3 jaw chuck is an absolute
piece of crap. So I am tightening it, measuring the runnout, loosening
the mount bolts and tapping it gently to make it run true at the size
its currently tightened on. This chuck, a Polish Bison that looks brand
new, must be a very poor factory second to be that far off. I already
cut the registration in the backplate down some so I could move it
around.
Honeydo's call. :)
Post by Trent Hejazi
Marshall
Thanks Marshal.
Post by Trent Hejazi
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or copper
to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
----- ----
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 06:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Danny Miller
Look up CA954 aluminum bronze.
I'll keep that in mind Danny, thanks. Brass already purchased though.
Post by Danny Miller
Very good sliding surface on stainless.
Danny
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well.
I'll get a brass bar yet tonight then, thanks.
Post by Trent Hejazi
When supporting the
barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Threads on a p-17 are square, 10 tpi. I already have a tool ground
for that.
Post by Trent Hejazi
Otherwise, they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel.
Only way to circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel,
then skim cut concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a
set of inboard and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head
stock. This really depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel
dimensions you are working with.
Fortunately, the spindle will pass the barrel nicely all the way.
It looks like I'll have to make the spider bolts, so I may as well
get a foot of 1/2" brass hex stock while I'm at it.
Currently working on a piece of 3/4" steel, crooked as a dogs hind
leg, need to fit the action on it between centers so I can face it
square. But first I had to shim the tailstock for elevation, it was
about 25 thou low.
Then figure out a way to spin the bolt as its face is about 3.5 thou
out of square. Thats hard on brass. Then measuring the tenon after
getting it out, it doesn't match the drawing I have by as much as 37
thou in one measurement. And I need to make a headspace gauge as
I've not managed to find one for the 6.5 C.M. Yet. Lots of work
before I actually chuck up the barrel.
And I found today, that the scroll in this 3 jaw chuck is an
absolute piece of crap. So I am tightening it, measuring the
runnout, loosening the mount bolts and tapping it gently to make it
run true at the size its currently tightened on. This chuck, a
Polish Bison that looks brand new, must be a very poor factory
second to be that far off. I already cut the registration in the
backplate down some so I could move it around.
Honeydo's call. :)
Post by Trent Hejazi
Marshall
Thanks Marshal.
Post by Trent Hejazi
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or
copper to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
------------------------------------------------------------------
--- ----- ----
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Chris Albertson
2017-07-16 23:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Why not ball bearings? Then there is no relative movement between the rest
and the part.

As for friction of solid fingers
lowest friction is a lead/copper alloy, next best phosphor bronze. Motor
oil helps.
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When supporting the
barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them. Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way to
circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim cut
concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of inboard and
outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock. This really
depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you are working
with.
Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or copper to
make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the fairly
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Post by Gene Heskett
----
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Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Trent Hejazi
2017-07-16 23:13:42 UTC
Permalink
That¹s another direction I want to try. Basically, a cat head riding in a
ball bearing that mounts in the steady rest. This would allow me to
center a barrel by using the DTI inside a chamber or muzzle, where I
cannot otherwise take a skim cut while supporting on a center or run it
through the headstock. Should save some time and frustration.

Marshall
Post by Chris Albertson
Why not ball bearings? Then there is no relative movement between the rest
and the part.
As for friction of solid fingers
lowest friction is a lead/copper alloy, next best phosphor bronze. Motor
oil helps.
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When supporting the
barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way to
circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim cut
concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of inboard and
outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock. This really
depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you are working
with.
Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or copper to
make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly
Post by Gene Heskett
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Post by Gene Heskett
----
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Redondo Beach, California
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-17 00:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trent Hejazi
That¹s another direction I want to try. Basically, a cat head riding
in a ball bearing that mounts in the steady rest.
Not familiar with the term "cat head", 'splain plz. Preferably with a
link to a pix?
Post by Trent Hejazi
This would allow me
to center a barrel by using the DTI inside a chamber or muzzle, where
I cannot otherwise take a skim cut while supporting on a center or run
it through the headstock. Should save some time and frustration.
Marshall
Post by Chris Albertson
Why not ball bearings? Then there is no relative movement between the rest
and the part.
As for friction of solid fingers
lowest friction is a lead/copper alloy, next best phosphor bronze.
Motor oil helps.
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When supporting
the barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way to
circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim cut
concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of inboard
and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock. This
really depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you
are working with.
Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or
copper to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly
Post by Gene Heskett
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Post by Gene Heskett
----
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Stuart Stevenson
2017-07-17 00:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Agreed - what is a cat head?
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Trent Hejazi
That¹s another direction I want to try. Basically, a cat head riding
in a ball bearing that mounts in the steady rest.
Not familiar with the term "cat head", 'splain plz. Preferably with a
link to a pix?
Post by Trent Hejazi
This would allow me
to center a barrel by using the DTI inside a chamber or muzzle, where
I cannot otherwise take a skim cut while supporting on a center or run
it through the headstock. Should save some time and frustration.
Marshall
Post by Chris Albertson
Why not ball bearings? Then there is no relative movement between the rest
and the part.
As for friction of solid fingers
lowest friction is a lead/copper alloy, next best phosphor bronze.
Motor oil helps.
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When supporting
the barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way to
circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim cut
concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of inboard
and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock. This
really depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you
are working with.
Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or
copper to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly
Post by Gene Heskett
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Post by Gene Heskett
----
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Trent Hejazi
2017-07-17 01:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Sorry. That’s how I felt when I first heard of a HAL pin ;)

Catheads usually have four fine thread set screws and act like a for jaw
independent chuck so you can fine adjust the bores on barrels. By making
one, you can gain some flexibility. By sticking a DTI probe inside of the
bore, you can measure off the bore or grooves in a barrel and adjust both
ends of the barrel to run concentric with the spindle. They can also be
used in facing off a receiver shoulder after using a mandrel to bring the
centerline concentric.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&u
act=8&ved=0ahUKEwi6-4_clY_VAhUCYyYKHT0VAPYQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pin
terest.com%2Fpin%2F294845106839231856%2F&psig=AFQjCNFuUssISJFvtHEqrvLf2d5sZ
eC-GQ&ust=1500341478942344

Here is an outboard cathead:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/300sniper/rifle%20tools/barrelthread
2.jpg



This one is good for pistol barrels and short stuff like bolts:

Loading Image...

Marshall
Post by Stuart Stevenson
Agreed - what is a cat head?
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Trent Hejazi
That¹s another direction I want to try. Basically, a cat head riding
in a ball bearing that mounts in the steady rest.
Not familiar with the term "cat head", 'splain plz. Preferably with a
link to a pix?
Post by Trent Hejazi
This would allow me
to center a barrel by using the DTI inside a chamber or muzzle, where
I cannot otherwise take a skim cut while supporting on a center or run
it through the headstock. Should save some time and frustration.
Marshall
Post by Chris Albertson
Why not ball bearings? Then there is no relative movement between the rest
and the part.
As for friction of solid fingers
lowest friction is a lead/copper alloy, next best phosphor bronze.
Motor oil helps.
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When supporting
the barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way to
circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim cut
concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of inboard
and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock. This
really depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you
are working with.
Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or
copper to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly
Post by Gene Heskett
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Post by Gene Heskett
----
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
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-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-17 02:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trent Hejazi
Sorry. That’s how I felt when I first heard of a HAL pin ;)
Catheads usually have four fine thread set screws and act like a for
jaw independent chuck so you can fine adjust the bores on barrels. By
making one, you can gain some flexibility. By sticking a DTI probe
inside of the bore, you can measure off the bore or grooves in a
barrel and adjust both ends of the barrel to run concentric with the
spindle. They can also be used in facing off a receiver shoulder
after using a mandrel to bring the centerline concentric.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=
rja&u
act=8&ved=0ahUKEwi6-4_clY_VAhUCYyYKHT0VAPYQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fww
w.pin
terest.com%2Fpin%2F294845106839231856%2F&psig=AFQjCNFuUssISJFvtHEqrvLf
2d5sZ eC-GQ&ust=1500341478942344
This one shows.
Post by Trent Hejazi
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/300sniper/rifle%20tools/barrelt
hread 2.jpg
This one is hiding behind a login, or something. I can well imagine
that its nearly the same thing, but riding in a rather large bearing in
a steady frame. Perhaps with only 4 bolts.

I have a rear of the spindle spider about half built, waiting on some hex
brass bar to make the bolts. And I've a couple big alu blocks but
before I start carving on those, I have got to come by a power hacksaw I
can afford. And find a place to put it. Thats an even bigger problem.
I need a garage about 20 feet bigger, in all three directions...

But first I'd have to buy some dirt. :(
Post by Trent Hejazi
http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu2/strikerdown/Finished.jpg
Marshall
Post by Stuart Stevenson
Agreed - what is a cat head?
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Trent Hejazi
That¹s another direction I want to try. Basically, a cat head
riding in a ball bearing that mounts in the steady rest.
Not familiar with the term "cat head", 'splain plz. Preferably with
a link to a pix?
Post by Trent Hejazi
This would allow me
to center a barrel by using the DTI inside a chamber or muzzle,
where I cannot otherwise take a skim cut while supporting on a
center or run it through the headstock. Should save some time
and frustration.
Marshall
On 7/16/17, 6:00 PM, "Chris Albertson"
Post by Chris Albertson
Why not ball bearings? Then there is no relative movement between the rest
and the part.
As for friction of solid fingers
lowest friction is a lead/copper alloy, next best phosphor
bronze. Motor oil helps.
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 7:00 PM, Trent Hejazi
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When
supporting the barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without
damaging them. Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way
to circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then
skim cut concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a
set of inboard and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the
head stock. This really depends on the spindle bore dia and
barrel dimensions you are working with.
Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for
working on finished parts. So I need to order a foot of
1/2x1" brass or copper to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly
Post by Gene Heskett
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Post by Gene Heskett
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Redondo Beach, California
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Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Thank you for honoring my wish.
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Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
andy pugh
2017-07-17 08:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Stevenson
Agreed - what is a cat head?
It's the beam that you hoist an anchor with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathead

(I knew exactly what a cathead was, and so was even more confused)
--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
Erik Christiansen
2017-07-17 09:32:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Stuart Stevenson
Agreed - what is a cat head?
It's the beam that you hoist an anchor with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathead
(I knew exactly what a cathead was, and so was even more confused)
Me too, so I wasn't: https://au.pinterest.com/pin/421931058818147426/
In addition to the one in the top LH corner, there's one done with
grubscrews further down. (I like 'em when there's a bit less grabby
steel flailing about.)

Erik
andy pugh
2017-07-17 09:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik Christiansen
Me too, so I wasn't: https://au.pinterest.com/pin/421931058818147426/
Pinterest only lets you see the top few results before demanding one
sign-up with them, but I could see enough to be led to

Which is a very interesting variation on the theme.
--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
Erik Christiansen
2017-07-17 10:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Erik Christiansen
Me too, so I wasn't: https://au.pinterest.com/pin/421931058818147426/
Pinterest only lets you see the top few results before demanding one
sign-up with them, but I could see enough to be led to
http://youtu.be/g0x90V1MEmc
Which is a very interesting variation on the theme.
Ah, I didn't try following any, but around half way down the page
there's another feline - with soft jaws. As it is used for gunsmithing,
Gene might find the kindness to barrels of interest. (Maybe brass bolts
would suffice?)

Erik
Stuart Stevenson
2017-07-17 12:21:58 UTC
Permalink
I did some roughnecking in my youth so I also know what a cathead is. The
rotating part in the video.

https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3869390-stock-footage-drawworks-cathead-rotating-equipment-for-oil-drilling-rig.html

Obviously, not the subject of this thread hence the question. :)
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by andy pugh
Post by Erik Christiansen
Me too, so I wasn't: https://au.pinterest.com/pin/421931058818147426/
Pinterest only lets you see the top few results before demanding one
sign-up with them, but I could see enough to be led to
http://youtu.be/g0x90V1MEmc
Which is a very interesting variation on the theme.
Ah, I didn't try following any, but around half way down the page
there's another feline - with soft jaws. As it is used for gunsmithing,
Gene might find the kindness to barrels of interest. (Maybe brass bolts
would suffice?)
Erik
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reading, and cease and desist from saving or opening my private
correspondence.
Thank you for honoring my wish.
andy pugh
2017-07-17 12:37:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Stevenson
I did some roughnecking in my youth so I also know what a cathead is. The
rotating part in the video.
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3869390-stock-footage-drawworks-cathead-rotating-equipment-for-oil-drilling-rig.html
That might be the missing link here. It is closely related to the
anchor-hoisting gear, but also has a visual resemblance to the lathe
tooling.

(but it looks nothing at all like the head of an actual cat)
--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
Gene Heskett
2017-07-17 14:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by andy pugh
Post by Erik Christiansen
https://au.pinterest.com/pin/421931058818147426/
Pinterest only lets you see the top few results before demanding one
sign-up with them, but I could see enough to be led to
http://youtu.be/g0x90V1MEmc
Which is a very interesting variation on the theme.
Ah, I didn't try following any, but around half way down the page
there's another feline - with soft jaws. As it is used for
gunsmithing, Gene might find the kindness to barrels of interest.
(Maybe brass bolts would suffice?)
Erik
I saw that, and the long pipe gripped in the chuck with the huge bearing
so it all turned. The bearing is nice but $$$$$$ and not needed if the
tube is turned truly round. That would allow, in combination with a
spider on the back of the spindle, the barrel to be aligned with the
bore regardless of how shitty the chuck or the barrels OD was. An 18"
piece of 3" schedule, turned so the steady shoes rode it, and enough
brass screws (12?) to lock the barrel w/o marking it up, seems to be the
ideal method. I believe I see a trip to the scrap yard over near Grafton
in my future.
Post by Erik Christiansen
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_______________________________________________
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
andy pugh
2017-07-17 15:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
I saw that, and the long pipe gripped in the chuck with the huge bearing
so it all turned. The bearing is nice but $$$$$$ and not needed if the
tube is turned truly round.
I imagine that a suitable bearing could be found that would not be all
that expensive, especially as you could make the tool to suit the
available bearing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280920636178 looks like it could work.

And I seem to recall that rifle barrels are very rarely circular.
(though in the case of that rig in the video the real problem would be
the gun carriage trunnions)
--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
Trent Hejazi
2017-07-17 16:22:27 UTC
Permalink
I replaced my outboard spindle nut with a cathead, and made a Morse # 5 1/2
taper cathead to fit the inboard spindle taper so I don't even use a four
jaw chuck sometimes.

marshall
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
I saw that, and the long pipe gripped in the chuck with the huge bearing
so it all turned. The bearing is nice but $$$$$$ and not needed if the
tube is turned truly round.
I imagine that a suitable bearing could be found that would not be all
that expensive, especially as you could make the tool to suit the
available bearing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280920636178 looks like it could work.
And I seem to recall that rifle barrels are very rarely circular.
(though in the case of that rig in the video the real problem would be
the gun carriage trunnions)
--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-17 16:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
I saw that, and the long pipe gripped in the chuck with the huge
bearing so it all turned. The bearing is nice but $$$$$$ and not
needed if the tube is turned truly round.
I imagine that a suitable bearing could be found that would not be all
that expensive, especially as you could make the tool to suit the
available bearing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280920636178 looks like it could work.
And I seem to recall that rifle barrels are very rarely circular.
(though in the case of that rig in the video the real problem would be
the gun carriage trunnions)
In the case of a bolt action hunting rifle, that stuff is on the action,
barrels are generally turned smooth. Any taper is optional, this one
tapers to .82" at the muzzle. The only place where the installed
barrels rotation is important is a flat just wide enough to clear the
claw style extractor when the bolt is closed. Its often filed by hand
after the barrel is screwed in and an impression made in some modeling
clay to mark the boundaries by the bolt, with extractor mounted, being
pushed into the clay. Or a witness mark made on the bottom. It could be
cut with the right sized milling tool. Remove it, file the flat, and
reinstall to the same torque, with a 4 or 5 foot handle on the action
wrench.

One thing I'd like to see some attention paid to, is designing a taper
that doesn't have a natural resonant frequency. But most just turn for
pretty, or hitting a max allowable weight. Such barrels tend to be quite
picky about the load for best accuracy, often found by loading in slowly
increasing charges, and shooting to see the movement on target as the
charge is increased. The most accurate load will generally correspond
to the widest swing of the string on the target because at the peak of
the widest string, the barrel is moving the slowest as it peaks at the
swing point at the instant the bullet leaves the muzzle. At that point,
a small variation in charge or ignition has the least effect on the
impact point. Change the load so its at the mid-point of that vibration,
perhaps a 2% change, and it becomes much more sensitive to a .1% change
in the load because that movement swing is at the highest velocity.

Bug hole guns are a whole science in themselves. So are the shooters who
can make them perform. At my age and eyesight today, I am long past my
peak. So I cheat with ever more powerfull glass sights. I can recall a
shooter on an adjacent bench in 1978, calling my attention to a fly
sitting on the corner of my target, 100 meters out. I moved a few grains
of sand in the bags and said "do you mean that one?" as my rifle spoke.
He said I missed, so we bet a 6 pack and walked out to look at the
target. The bullethole had bloodstained edges. ;-) But that was 39
years ago. And I had a Bud to wash down dinner that evening.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
dave
2017-07-18 03:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
I saw that, and the long pipe gripped in the chuck with the huge
bearing so it all turned. The bearing is nice but $$$$$$ and not
needed if the tube is turned truly round.
I imagine that a suitable bearing could be found that would not be all
that expensive, especially as you could make the tool to suit the
available bearing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280920636178 looks like it could work.
And I seem to recall that rifle barrels are very rarely circular.
(though in the case of that rig in the video the real problem would be
the gun carriage trunnions)
In the case of a bolt action hunting rifle, that stuff is on the action,
barrels are generally turned smooth. Any taper is optional, this one
tapers to .82" at the muzzle. The only place where the installed
barrels rotation is important is a flat just wide enough to clear the
claw style extractor when the bolt is closed. Its often filed by hand
after the barrel is screwed in and an impression made in some modeling
clay to mark the boundaries by the bolt, with extractor mounted, being
pushed into the clay. Or a witness mark made on the bottom. It could be
cut with the right sized milling tool. Remove it, file the flat, and
reinstall to the same torque, with a 4 or 5 foot handle on the action
wrench.
One thing I'd like to see some attention paid to, is designing a taper
that doesn't have a natural resonant frequency. But most just turn for
pretty, or hitting a max allowable weight. Such barrels tend to be quite
picky about the load for best accuracy, often found by loading in slowly
increasing charges, and shooting to see the movement on target as the
charge is increased. The most accurate load will generally correspond
to the widest swing of the string on the target because at the peak of
the widest string, the barrel is moving the slowest as it peaks at the
swing point at the instant the bullet leaves the muzzle. At that point,
a small variation in charge or ignition has the least effect on the
impact point. Change the load so its at the mid-point of that vibration,
perhaps a 2% change, and it becomes much more sensitive to a .1% change
in the load because that movement swing is at the highest velocity.
Bug hole guns are a whole science in themselves. So are the shooters who
can make them perform. At my age and eyesight today, I am long past my
peak. So I cheat with ever more powerfull glass sights. I can recall a
shooter on an adjacent bench in 1978, calling my attention to a fly
sitting on the corner of my target, 100 meters out. I moved a few grains
of sand in the bags and said "do you mean that one?" as my rifle spoke.
He said I missed, so we bet a 6 pack and walked out to look at the
target. The bullethole had bloodstained edges. ;-) But that was 39
years ago. And I had a Bud to wash down dinner that evening.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene,
I've seen strips of pop cans used as a buffer (static) between the
chuck jaws and a barrel.
There are also some steady-rests done with hydraulics so that there is
always a dampening
load on the barrel but not binding. Good, fast, cheap: pick any two.

Dave
Gene Heskett
2017-07-18 04:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by dave
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
I saw that, and the long pipe gripped in the chuck with the huge
bearing so it all turned. The bearing is nice but $$$$$$ and not
needed if the tube is turned truly round.
I imagine that a suitable bearing could be found that would not be
all that expensive, especially as you could make the tool to suit
the available bearing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280920636178 looks like it could work.
And I seem to recall that rifle barrels are very rarely circular.
(though in the case of that rig in the video the real problem would
be the gun carriage trunnions)
In the case of a bolt action hunting rifle, that stuff is on the
action, barrels are generally turned smooth. Any taper is optional,
this one tapers to .82" at the muzzle. The only place where the
installed barrels rotation is important is a flat just wide enough
to clear the claw style extractor when the bolt is closed. Its often
filed by hand after the barrel is screwed in and an impression made
in some modeling clay to mark the boundaries by the bolt, with
extractor mounted, being pushed into the clay. Or a witness mark
made on the bottom. It could be cut with the right sized milling
tool. Remove it, file the flat, and reinstall to the same torque,
with a 4 or 5 foot handle on the action wrench.
One thing I'd like to see some attention paid to, is designing a
taper that doesn't have a natural resonant frequency. But most just
turn for pretty, or hitting a max allowable weight. Such barrels
tend to be quite picky about the load for best accuracy, often found
by loading in slowly increasing charges, and shooting to see the
movement on target as the charge is increased. The most accurate
load will generally correspond to the widest swing of the string on
the target because at the peak of the widest string, the barrel is
moving the slowest as it peaks at the swing point at the instant the
bullet leaves the muzzle. At that point, a small variation in charge
or ignition has the least effect on the impact point. Change the
load so its at the mid-point of that vibration, perhaps a 2% change,
and it becomes much more sensitive to a .1% change in the load
because that movement swing is at the highest velocity.
Bug hole guns are a whole science in themselves. So are the
shooters who can make them perform. At my age and eyesight today, I
am long past my peak. So I cheat with ever more powerfull glass
sights. I can recall a shooter on an adjacent bench in 1978, calling
my attention to a fly sitting on the corner of my target, 100 meters
out. I moved a few grains of sand in the bags and said "do you mean
that one?" as my rifle spoke. He said I missed, so we bet a 6 pack
and walked out to look at the target. The bullethole had
bloodstained edges. ;-) But that was 39 years ago. And I had a Bud
to wash down dinner that evening.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene,
I've seen strips of pop cans used as a buffer (static) between
the chuck jaws and a barrel.
More than likely a steel barrel, where any traces of alu would be
polished away, and then hot salts blued. About the only thing I can do
to this SS is improve the polish, which for a meat collector, is a bad
show. Ideal would be to cork it up, and using a fine grit, sandblast it
to give the surface some "tooth", and paint it, using an assortment of
flat camo colors. 100% coverage being the most important attribute.
Post by dave
There are also some steady-rests done with hydraulics so that there is
always a dampening
load on the barrel but not binding. Good, fast, cheap: pick any two.
Some try to dampen the barrel by bedding so there is upward pressure out
at the forearm tip constituting a dampening friction. But you have to
keep weather records so you only take it out of the rack to shoot it on
days when the weather has been just so, for the last week. :( I want it
to shoot well anytime I pull it out of the cabinet, weather being the
least of my worries unless its too cold for my diabetic feet.

I bought a couple boxes of Hornady's new ELD-X 140 gr bullets, and 250
new Starline cases so should have stuff to load it on the shelf right
now. Downright sexy, with a G1 BC of about .620. The only place that
carries a warning is the box itself which has a notice of 8 turns per
inch minimum, and probably would be 700 meters out before any yaw
settled if sent out of a 9" twist barrel. The chrono will tell me if I
can get 3000 fps out of a 30 inch barrel. Most data stops at 2900, in a
24" barrel.
Post by dave
Dave
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Stephen Dubovsky
2017-07-18 18:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Most of the 140gr 6.5CM data I've seen the bullet slows down past 24" bbl
length. Not sure why you'd want/need a barrel burner either (isn't thats
what people pick 6mm/243 win for?) The stock Hornady 140 ELD-M load is
already comparable ballistics to 300 win mag. I've shot 6.5CM out to
1200yds. You trying to "get meat" from the next state? Get someone to run
your planned data through something like quickload. Would save a lot of
experimenting.
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by dave
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
I saw that, and the long pipe gripped in the chuck with the huge
bearing so it all turned. The bearing is nice but $$$$$$ and not
needed if the tube is turned truly round.
I imagine that a suitable bearing could be found that would not be
all that expensive, especially as you could make the tool to suit
the available bearing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280920636178 looks like it could work.
And I seem to recall that rifle barrels are very rarely circular.
(though in the case of that rig in the video the real problem would
be the gun carriage trunnions)
In the case of a bolt action hunting rifle, that stuff is on the
action, barrels are generally turned smooth. Any taper is optional,
this one tapers to .82" at the muzzle. The only place where the
installed barrels rotation is important is a flat just wide enough
to clear the claw style extractor when the bolt is closed. Its often
filed by hand after the barrel is screwed in and an impression made
in some modeling clay to mark the boundaries by the bolt, with
extractor mounted, being pushed into the clay. Or a witness mark
made on the bottom. It could be cut with the right sized milling
tool. Remove it, file the flat, and reinstall to the same torque,
with a 4 or 5 foot handle on the action wrench.
One thing I'd like to see some attention paid to, is designing a
taper that doesn't have a natural resonant frequency. But most just
turn for pretty, or hitting a max allowable weight. Such barrels
tend to be quite picky about the load for best accuracy, often found
by loading in slowly increasing charges, and shooting to see the
movement on target as the charge is increased. The most accurate
load will generally correspond to the widest swing of the string on
the target because at the peak of the widest string, the barrel is
moving the slowest as it peaks at the swing point at the instant the
bullet leaves the muzzle. At that point, a small variation in charge
or ignition has the least effect on the impact point. Change the
load so its at the mid-point of that vibration, perhaps a 2% change,
and it becomes much more sensitive to a .1% change in the load
because that movement swing is at the highest velocity.
Bug hole guns are a whole science in themselves. So are the
shooters who can make them perform. At my age and eyesight today, I
am long past my peak. So I cheat with ever more powerfull glass
sights. I can recall a shooter on an adjacent bench in 1978, calling
my attention to a fly sitting on the corner of my target, 100 meters
out. I moved a few grains of sand in the bags and said "do you mean
that one?" as my rifle spoke. He said I missed, so we bet a 6 pack
and walked out to look at the target. The bullethole had
bloodstained edges. ;-) But that was 39 years ago. And I had a Bud
to wash down dinner that evening.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene,
I've seen strips of pop cans used as a buffer (static) between
the chuck jaws and a barrel.
More than likely a steel barrel, where any traces of alu would be
polished away, and then hot salts blued. About the only thing I can do
to this SS is improve the polish, which for a meat collector, is a bad
show. Ideal would be to cork it up, and using a fine grit, sandblast it
to give the surface some "tooth", and paint it, using an assortment of
flat camo colors. 100% coverage being the most important attribute.
Post by dave
There are also some steady-rests done with hydraulics so that there is
always a dampening
load on the barrel but not binding. Good, fast, cheap: pick any two.
Some try to dampen the barrel by bedding so there is upward pressure out
at the forearm tip constituting a dampening friction. But you have to
keep weather records so you only take it out of the rack to shoot it on
days when the weather has been just so, for the last week. :( I want it
to shoot well anytime I pull it out of the cabinet, weather being the
least of my worries unless its too cold for my diabetic feet.
I bought a couple boxes of Hornady's new ELD-X 140 gr bullets, and 250
new Starline cases so should have stuff to load it on the shelf right
now. Downright sexy, with a G1 BC of about .620. The only place that
carries a warning is the box itself which has a notice of 8 turns per
inch minimum, and probably would be 700 meters out before any yaw
settled if sent out of a 9" twist barrel. The chrono will tell me if I
can get 3000 fps out of a 30 inch barrel. Most data stops at 2900, in a
24" barrel.
Post by dave
Dave
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-18 20:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Dubovsky
Most of the 140gr 6.5CM data I've seen the bullet slows down past 24"
bbl length. Not sure why you'd want/need a barrel burner either
(isn't thats what people pick 6mm/243 win for?) The stock Hornady 140
ELD-M load is already comparable ballistics to 300 win mag. I've shot
6.5CM out to 1200yds. You trying to "get meat" from the next state?
I have done a reasonable imitation of that, having once towed a big buck
about 700 yards back up a shale ridge to flat dirt on the edge of a
winter wheat field with a tote-goat, on Rustlin Jack Reilly's ranch
about 30 miles north of Wall SD. Haveing a decent estimate of the
holdover, and knowing, from a chronograph I'd made, the muzzle vel of a
150 gr .311 Norma SPBT, the Speer ballistics calculator worked backwards
said 640 yards. The bullet did not expand, but sailed thru his liver,
the first shot landed right behind his heels, the next two after I
readjusted the aim point by a couple clumps of sawgrass, went thru his
liver about 3" apart.

Barrels get stretched when you have confidence in the weapon. I no longer
have any confidence in this nearly 45 yo, rusty .3085" barrel thats ding
3"+ groups.

That long shot and take home was from the barrel before this one. A
bastard barrel if there ever was one. A P-14 barrel someone had
rechambered for 30-06, I had rechambered to Ackley-06, and the magic
started working when I measured a slug and switched to .3115" bullets.
Throw in an Ackley-06 reamer and 3150 fps was the order of the day with
sub inch groups if I was paying attention.

Thats why my boys called it AT&T, and I call it Old Meat in the Pot. If
it lasts 2500 rounds, it will handily outlast me. And one of my boys
will inherit AT&T. He's been salivating over it for 40 years now. :)

[huge snip]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Phillip Carter
2017-07-17 02:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Trent Hejazi
That¹s another direction I want to try. Basically, a cat head riding
in a ball bearing that mounts in the steady rest.
Not familiar with the term "cat head", 'splain plz. Preferably with a
link to a pix?
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=aiEDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA188&lpg=PA188&dq=lathe+cathead&source=bl&ots=Mh6nNIkCpP&sig=A13sgkeR26UX7tTvSDwuYa6JehA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbzOncoo_VAhVGX5QKHUUfDA8Q6AEIZzAM#v=onepage&q=lathe%20cathead&f=false
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Trent Hejazi
This would allow me
to center a barrel by using the DTI inside a chamber or muzzle, where
I cannot otherwise take a skim cut while supporting on a center or run
it through the headstock. Should save some time and frustration.
Marshall
Post by Chris Albertson
Why not ball bearings? Then there is no relative movement between the rest
and the part.
As for friction of solid fingers
lowest friction is a lead/copper alloy, next best phosphor bronze.
Motor oil helps.
Post by Trent Hejazi
I have brass contact fingers and they work well. When supporting
the barrel tennon, they ride on the threads without damaging them.
Otherwise,
they will always leave an annoying ring on a barrel. Only way to
circumvent is to make a collar to slip over barrel, then skim cut
concentric with the bore. Other option is to make a set of inboard
and outboard cat-heads so you can work near the head stock. This
really depends on the spindle bore dia and barrel dimensions you
are working with.
Marshall
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or
copper to make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly
Post by Gene Heskett
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Post by Gene Heskett
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Redondo Beach, California
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
Ed
2017-07-17 00:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trent Hejazi
That¹s another direction I want to try. Basically, a cat head riding in a
ball bearing that mounts in the steady rest. This would allow me to
center a barrel by using the DTI inside a chamber or muzzle, where I
cannot otherwise take a skim cut while supporting on a center or run it
through the headstock. Should save some time and frustration.
That is what I have done. I made a steady that mounts a bearing, then
pressed in a sleeve that extends out one side, that extension has 4
holes drilled and tapped radially for screws that act like a four jaw
chuck. You initially have to indicate the bore to the chuck to get
proper height and X position and check face of the bearing for runout.
Between that and a Z axis DRO it makes chambering about a 20 minute job.

Ed
andy pugh
2017-07-16 05:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the fairly
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Copper is quite sticky, you want brass or bronze.
--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 06:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Copper is quite sticky, you want brass or bronze.
Brass s/b here next Friday. The reason I asked is that one guy on
youtube has what looks like copper faces on his. He's a better smith
than many of the blow-hards who are fond of the sound of their voice w/o
really saying anything. Could be bronze, hard to tell in the video's.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Marcus Bowman
2017-07-16 06:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy pugh
Post by Gene Heskett
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the fairly
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
On a three-fingered steady, a different approach is to add rotating bearings to the ends of the fingers. I made a set which use thin ball bearings designed for the bottom bracket on a bicycle. The fingers are forked at the end, with the bearing running on a short hardened shaft. The bearing turns rather than rubs. I would recommend an arrangement which allows the bearing to turn slightly, to align itself with the surface of the shaft. My fingers are square-section because the original design of the steady has flat surfaces against which the fingers slide. Circular-section fingers would be better, to allow the fingers to turn to align the outer track of the bearings to align against the work.

Second thought: I may have misunderstood about fingers rubbing on threads; but can you make a female threaded sleeve for your threads? That would give you a circular sacrificial surface for the fingers to rub against.

Marcus
Post by andy pugh
Copper is quite sticky, you want brass or bronze.
--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 06:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcus Bowman
Post by Gene Heskett
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the
fairly high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
On a three-fingered steady, a different approach is to add rotating
bearings to the ends of the fingers. I made a set which use thin ball
bearings designed for the bottom bracket on a bicycle. The fingers are
forked at the end, with the bearing running on a short hardened shaft.
The bearing turns rather than rubs. I would recommend an arrangement
which allows the bearing to turn slightly, to align itself with the
surface of the shaft. My fingers are square-section because the
original design of the steady has flat surfaces against which the
fingers slide. Circular-section fingers would be better, to allow the
fingers to turn to align the outer track of the bearings to align
against the work.
Second thought: I may have misunderstood about fingers rubbing on
threads; but can you make a female threaded sleeve for your threads?
That would give you a circular sacrificial surface for the fingers to
rub against.
Not needed, Marcus, the P-17 threads are square, so lots of bearing
surface. A bigger problem is getting them adequately centered on the
bore. I have a new ball bearing center on order as this old one seems to
have a considerable amount of slop. I will not attempt to do that
critical work until the new center arrives. Some of this I should be
doing between centers, driving the workpiece with a dog, but I don't
have a 5C to MT2 adaptor. I might see if I can find one tomorrow. My bed
is calling me now.

Thanks Marcus.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
John Kasunich
2017-07-16 14:55:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017, at 02:51 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
(snip)
Post by Gene Heskett
Some of this I should be
doing between centers, driving the workpiece with a dog, but I don't
have a 5C to MT2 adaptor. I might see if I can find one tomorrow. My bed
is calling me now.
If you are referring to the headstock end, you don't need an adapter.
Just chuck a piece of scrap steel in your 3-jaw and turn a 60 degree
point on it. Doesn't matter how bad the 3-jaw is. If you turn the point
in place and don't remove it until you are done with the job it WILL be
centered.

For the next job, stick it back in the chuck and just take enough of a
skim cut to make sure it is centered again.
--
John Kasunich
***@fastmail.fm
Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 15:25:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kasunich
(snip)
Post by Gene Heskett
Some of this I should be
doing between centers, driving the workpiece with a dog, but I don't
have a 5C to MT2 adaptor. I might see if I can find one tomorrow. My
bed is calling me now.
If you are referring to the headstock end, you don't need an adapter.
Just chuck a piece of scrap steel in your 3-jaw and turn a 60 degree
point on it. Doesn't matter how bad the 3-jaw is. If you turn the
point in place and don't remove it until you are done with the job it
WILL be centered.
If I turn the jaws around on this chuck, that might let a dog engage a
jaw to drive the mandrel I'm making, which in turn is holding the
workpiece. That might be just what Dr. Gene needs.

Thanks for the idea, John.
Post by John Kasunich
For the next job, stick it back in the chuck and just take enough of a
skim cut to make sure it is centered again.
That would work well too.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
jeremy youngs
2017-07-16 16:38:46 UTC
Permalink
A piece of cardboard box with a hole in the middle does a treat for keeping
chips out of the steady rest
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by John Kasunich
(snip)
Post by Gene Heskett
Some of this I should be
doing between centers, driving the workpiece with a dog, but I don't
have a 5C to MT2 adaptor. I might see if I can find one tomorrow. My
bed is calling me now.
If you are referring to the headstock end, you don't need an adapter.
Just chuck a piece of scrap steel in your 3-jaw and turn a 60 degree
point on it. Doesn't matter how bad the 3-jaw is. If you turn the
point in place and don't remove it until you are done with the job it
WILL be centered.
If I turn the jaws around on this chuck, that might let a dog engage a
jaw to drive the mandrel I'm making, which in turn is holding the
workpiece. That might be just what Dr. Gene needs.
Thanks for the idea, John.
Post by John Kasunich
For the next job, stick it back in the chuck and just take enough of a
skim cut to make sure it is centered again.
That would work well too.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 20:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeremy youngs
A piece of cardboard box with a hole in the middle does a treat for
keeping chips out of the steady rest
Hummm, now why the heck didn't I think of that?

And after getting the mandrel to fit, I went out and bought some 1/4" SAE
bolts to use for locking setscrews. Just one problem. I was gonna grind
a flat on the end of the mandrel and run a guard screw in to lock it to
the mandrel, but neither screws threads are long enough, and to top
that, the guard screws are 30 tpi!

As us 'mericans know, we have 2 common threads for 1/4" bolts. Coarse,
USS, is 20 tpi, and SAE, fine, is 28 tpi. Need a 30? Make the SOB. I
can, but first I have to dry the tears so I can see what the heck TLM is
doing.

Sometimes it really isn't worth the effort to get up, pee and make coffee
in the mornings... Grrrrrr. But, go see if I have a suitable grade 8
or better, with a long enough unthreaded shank to sacrifice.
Post by jeremy youngs
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by John Kasunich
(snip)
Post by Gene Heskett
Some of this I should be
doing between centers, driving the workpiece with a dog, but I
don't have a 5C to MT2 adaptor. I might see if I can find one
tomorrow. My bed is calling me now.
If you are referring to the headstock end, you don't need an
adapter. Just chuck a piece of scrap steel in your 3-jaw and turn
a 60 degree point on it. Doesn't matter how bad the 3-jaw is. If
you turn the point in place and don't remove it until you are done
with the job it WILL be centered.
If I turn the jaws around on this chuck, that might let a dog engage
a jaw to drive the mandrel I'm making, which in turn is holding the
workpiece. That might be just what Dr. Gene needs.
Thanks for the idea, John.
Post by John Kasunich
For the next job, stick it back in the chuck and just take enough
of a skim cut to make sure it is centered again.
That would work well too.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
Peter Blodow
2017-07-16 07:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Gene,
learning from the experience from machining in our shop, I made my (own
private) steady rest with small ball bearings right from the beginning
(and also the moving rest which can be bolted to the carriage). They
also cause some minor traces on the workpieces, but these can be
polished away.
Peter
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings all;
My steady rest has steel sliders, which will not do for working on
finished parts. So I need to order a foot of 1/2x1" brass or copper to
make some more better shoes.
Which will do the least damage to a pre-finished part, such as the fairly
high polished SS barrel? Brass or copper?
Thanks everybody.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Erik Christiansen
2017-07-16 08:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Blodow
Gene,
learning from the experience from machining in our shop, I made my (own
private) steady rest with small ball bearings right from the beginning (and
also the moving rest which can be bolted to the carriage). They also cause
some minor traces on the workpieces, but these can be polished away.
Peter
Peter,
Maybe a brass tyre, loctited or shrunk onto the bearing, could alleviate
that. I've only used brass-tipped fingers on steady rests, and found
them quite good, with a bit of oil and modest speed.

Erik
Peter Blodow
2017-07-16 11:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Erik, I have also bearings with an outer ring of toroid surface (no
edges), but never used them.
Peter
Post by Erik Christiansen
Post by Peter Blodow
Gene,
learning from the experience from machining in our shop, I made my (own
private) steady rest with small ball bearings right from the beginning (and
also the moving rest which can be bolted to the carriage). They also cause
some minor traces on the workpieces, but these can be polished away.
Peter
Peter,
Maybe a brass tyre, loctited or shrunk onto the bearing, could alleviate
that. I've only used brass-tipped fingers on steady rests, and found
them quite good, with a bit of oil and modest speed.
Erik
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Gene Heskett
2017-07-16 13:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Blodow
Gene,
learning from the experience from machining in our shop, I made my
(own private) steady rest with small ball bearings right from the
beginning (and also the moving rest which can be bolted to the
carriage). They also cause some minor traces on the workpieces, but
these can be polished away.
Peter
I'd considered that in a past effort, Peter. So I made one set for TLM,
didn't have adequate swarf control and it mashed the swarf that hit it
into the workpiece. Looked like a pop art version of a knurling tool
where it rode the piece of cold roll I was working on. Appearance wise,
I think the best description was fugly?

Then the experiment ended a little pre-mature as the bearings were
salvaged from used Sony BVU-800 capstan rollers, and the outer races
broke, too thin and the balls too big, too big a gap between contacts
left the outer race inadequately supported. Rings to drive them into,
re-enforcing the outer race might have worked better but weren't tried.
These were something in the 8mm OD range, teeny little things. Very low
rolling resistance, new or used. Normal loading was perhaps 20 lbs,
split between 2 bearings. The rubber wore out, or swelled up from
leaking lube, long before those bearings had any wear, and I always took
the old pinch roller assemblies home.

Terminal case of packrat-itis, and haven't found a cure yet. :) Even
worse, I married one 28 years ago this December. :)

Thank you, Peter. You are healthy and doing well I hope.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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